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> the app my electricity utility provides for viewing and paying my account DISABLES ITSELF FOREVER if you so much as enable USB debugging on your phone (even a

> the app my electricity utility provides for viewing and paying my account DISABLES ITSELF FOREVER if you so much as enable USB debugging on your phone (even after you've disabled it again). These are self-inflicted problems by these apps. Nothing to do with the OS. These apps simply don't work. Complain to the companies that push these broken apps to you. Would you buy a microwave oven that kills itself if you play the wrong kind of music in your kitchen?

abustamam 7mo ago
The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us. So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.
- seanhunter 7mo ago
  It obviously depends on where you live. In my country you certainly con choose a new electric company. I mention that because we really should use consumer choice to overcome these types of problems where we can. Ie if you can switch to a bank/electricity provider/whatever that has a less terrible app it’s really good to do so.
  - abustamam 7mo ago
    I agree on principle. I'm not sure if everywhere in the US is like this, but everywhere I've lived in California basically had a monopolistic electric and gas provider. For things where we do have a choice, yes I agree.
- abighamb 7mo ago
  Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply. Send a letter like that certified. It gets attention, and the time to write and mail a check really isn't, if you batch your bills, more than using an app. We do have ways to push their inconvenience back on them.
  - Forgeties79 7mo ago
    Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that “just works” because it solves the problem now. We’ve gotten to the point where unfortunately it is a luxury to fight for your privacy and consumer rights.
    - bornfreddy 7mo ago
      Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.
      - abustamam 7mo ago
        Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care. Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.
        bornfreddy 7mo ago
        > It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. Do they? News is usually the first thing that is replaced by propaganda. But yes, everyone chooses the battles they wish to fight. None are easy.
        abustamam 7mo ago
        Perhaps, but a recent example is ICE in Minnesota. The administration tried its best to spin it to match its propaganda but many people saw through it.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
Forgeties79 7mo ago
You’re implying we have more choice than we do and asking “the average joe” to change banks to accommodate their smartphone is not a serious suggestion. My utility company, for instance, literally won’t let you navigate their site with a VPN running. These kinds of practices are commonplace and becoming standard.

abustamam 7mo ago

The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us. So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.

seanhunter 7mo ago
It obviously depends on where you live. In my country you certainly con choose a new electric company. I mention that because we really should use consumer choice to overcome these types of problems where we can. Ie if you can switch to a bank/electricity provider/whatever that has a less terrible app it’s really good to do so.
- abustamam 7mo ago
  I agree on principle. I'm not sure if everywhere in the US is like this, but everywhere I've lived in California basically had a monopolistic electric and gas provider. For things where we do have a choice, yes I agree.
abighamb 7mo ago
Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply. Send a letter like that certified. It gets attention, and the time to write and mail a check really isn't, if you batch your bills, more than using an app. We do have ways to push their inconvenience back on them.
- Forgeties79 7mo ago
  Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that “just works” because it solves the problem now. We’ve gotten to the point where unfortunately it is a luxury to fight for your privacy and consumer rights.
  - bornfreddy 7mo ago
    Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.
    - abustamam 7mo ago
      Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care. Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.
      - bornfreddy 7mo ago
        > It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. Do they? News is usually the first thing that is replaced by propaganda. But yes, everyone chooses the battles they wish to fight. None are easy.
        abustamam 7mo ago
        Perhaps, but a recent example is ICE in Minnesota. The administration tried its best to spin it to match its propaganda but many people saw through it.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

Forgeties79 7mo ago

You’re implying we have more choice than we do and asking “the average joe” to change banks to accommodate their smartphone is not a serious suggestion. My utility company, for instance, literally won’t let you navigate their site with a VPN running. These kinds of practices are commonplace and becoming standard.