5 ms·

Google doesn't teach your kids the narrative structure against which they measure their own lives.

by colonel_panic 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago
(a) Neither does Disney, (b) Google controls the Internet, which is scarier.
- code_duck 14y ago
  "Google controls the Internet"? I use a lot of non-Google owned web sites and services. Can you support this assertion?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Most users of the Internet are dependent on Google to find anything on the Internet.
    - eric_h 14y ago
      Nevertheless, you could flip the switch and turn Google off, and people would be able to find things on the internet just fine.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        Strong disagree.
      - chc 14y ago
        "People" as in "some number of people somewhere"? Sure. But people in general? I strongly doubt it. Hang out with some "non-technical people" (they will often helpfully describe themselves this way for you) while they use the computer sometime. If they didn't have Google, they might be able to get to Facebook, but that would be pretty much the boundary of the Internet for them.
        Dylan16807 14y ago
        You don't think one of the top news stories is going to be 'omigod google is down, type yahoo.com at the top'?
        chc 14y ago
        I don't think most people read newspapers on a daily (or even monthly) basis, and they're not going to be able to get their news online that day.
        Dylan16807 14y ago
        I was thinking TV news, personally.
        code_duck 14y ago
        Every browser has a built in search feature, which offers a variety of providers. IE doesn't default to Google. I'm not sure why people here are acting as if Bing, Yahoo etc. don't exist and don't offer a decent service that would be adequate for the internet to continue functioning without Google.
        chc 14y ago
        We're not acting like that. We're saying it may as well be that way for most people. You and I would be fine if Google disappeared. We'd just switch our auto search to Bing/Duck Duck Go/Blekko and never look back. But most "non-technical" people are dependent on Google, and if they wanted to use Bing, they would have to either search "Bing" on Google and click the link in the results or find a nerd to set it up for them. Real World Example: Some relative of my girlfriend set up her mom's computer to use Yahoo. But she has since been convinced that Google is better and she should use that. So what does she do? Every time she starts up her web browser, she types "google" into the Yahoo search box, clicks the link to go to the Google homepage, then does her search there.
        code_duck 14y ago
      - rmc 14y ago
        You? Me? Yes we could find things. However it would have a massive influence on how the internet works. It's like Bear Grylls or some other "survivalist" who knows how to pick berries in the woods and make a shelter laughing at the idea that a breakdown in modern argiculture would have an effect on the world.
      - Bud 14y ago
        Just not true. There are people, a LOT of people, who literally think Google IS the internet. If they can't get to Google in a web browser, they think the internet is broken; "I can't get to my internet!" And they know of no other portal thereto. Just ask some folks over age 55 or so. You'll find this user mindset is very common.
        njharman 14y ago
        Sure, but it will take 1min of evening news to tell them google is now spelled bing.
      - aptwebapps 14y ago
        Maybe, but who is going to flip that switch? Until and unless someone does, the dependency remains.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  So the obsession many young girls have with Disney princesses, sometimes carrying it into adulthood (that makes for some very interesting conversations), has no influence on the narrative structure those girls are using to evaluate their lives?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    No. The Disney Princess "narrative" simply fits into preexisting gender norms. There was no "Disney Princess" culture in the 1950s. If you created a chart showing the trendlines of female mobilization into the workforce (and particularly the "professions") and the revenue extracted from Disney Princess offerings, you'd have a concrete reason to question the assumption you're making here.
    - swlevy 14y ago
      FYI Disney's princess culture arguably dates all the way back to 1937, with Snow White.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        Anticipating this very objection, I evoked the graph of Disney's revenue from Princess properties to further carry the point.
mariaslickflick 14y ago
the narrative structure that people respond to is objective and possibly derived from ancient myths. disney follows this structure rather than invent it.

Google doesn't teach your kids the narrative structure against which they measure their own lives.

tptacek 14y ago

(a) Neither does Disney, (b) Google controls the Internet, which is scarier.

code_duck 14y ago
"Google controls the Internet"? I use a lot of non-Google owned web sites and services. Can you support this assertion?
- tptacek 14y ago
  Most users of the Internet are dependent on Google to find anything on the Internet.
  - eric_h 14y ago
    Nevertheless, you could flip the switch and turn Google off, and people would be able to find things on the internet just fine.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Strong disagree.
    - chc 14y ago
      "People" as in "some number of people somewhere"? Sure. But people in general? I strongly doubt it. Hang out with some "non-technical people" (they will often helpfully describe themselves this way for you) while they use the computer sometime. If they didn't have Google, they might be able to get to Facebook, but that would be pretty much the boundary of the Internet for them.
      - Dylan16807 14y ago
        You don't think one of the top news stories is going to be 'omigod google is down, type yahoo.com at the top'?
        chc 14y ago
        I don't think most people read newspapers on a daily (or even monthly) basis, and they're not going to be able to get their news online that day.
        Dylan16807 14y ago
        I was thinking TV news, personally.
      - code_duck 14y ago
        Every browser has a built in search feature, which offers a variety of providers. IE doesn't default to Google. I'm not sure why people here are acting as if Bing, Yahoo etc. don't exist and don't offer a decent service that would be adequate for the internet to continue functioning without Google.
        chc 14y ago
        We're not acting like that. We're saying it may as well be that way for most people. You and I would be fine if Google disappeared. We'd just switch our auto search to Bing/Duck Duck Go/Blekko and never look back. But most "non-technical" people are dependent on Google, and if they wanted to use Bing, they would have to either search "Bing" on Google and click the link in the results or find a nerd to set it up for them. Real World Example: Some relative of my girlfriend set up her mom's computer to use Yahoo. But she has since been convinced that Google is better and she should use that. So what does she do? Every time she starts up her web browser, she types "google" into the Yahoo search box, clicks the link to go to the Google homepage, then does her search there.
        code_duck 14y ago
    - rmc 14y ago
      You? Me? Yes we could find things. However it would have a massive influence on how the internet works. It's like Bear Grylls or some other "survivalist" who knows how to pick berries in the woods and make a shelter laughing at the idea that a breakdown in modern argiculture would have an effect on the world.
    - Bud 14y ago
      Just not true. There are people, a LOT of people, who literally think Google IS the internet. If they can't get to Google in a web browser, they think the internet is broken; "I can't get to my internet!" And they know of no other portal thereto. Just ask some folks over age 55 or so. You'll find this user mindset is very common.
      - njharman 14y ago
        Sure, but it will take 1min of evening news to tell them google is now spelled bing.
    - aptwebapps 14y ago
      Maybe, but who is going to flip that switch? Until and unless someone does, the dependency remains.
nitrogen 14y ago
So the obsession many young girls have with Disney princesses, sometimes carrying it into adulthood (that makes for some very interesting conversations), has no influence on the narrative structure those girls are using to evaluate their lives?
- tptacek 14y ago
  No. The Disney Princess "narrative" simply fits into preexisting gender norms. There was no "Disney Princess" culture in the 1950s. If you created a chart showing the trendlines of female mobilization into the workforce (and particularly the "professions") and the revenue extracted from Disney Princess offerings, you'd have a concrete reason to question the assumption you're making here.
  - swlevy 14y ago
    FYI Disney's princess culture arguably dates all the way back to 1937, with Snow White.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Anticipating this very objection, I evoked the graph of Disney's revenue from Princess properties to further carry the point.

mariaslickflick 14y ago

the narrative structure that people respond to is objective and possibly derived from ancient myths. disney follows this structure rather than invent it.