8 ms·

Don’t you think that’s because Google was objectively a head above everyone other search engine for a long time?

by b3kart 7mo ago

azan_ 7mo ago
It’s not anymore (actually google is awful now) and people are still using it
- DrScientist 7mo ago
  As Chrome has about 75% market share across all platforms - probably 90% of those use the google default. As far as I'm aware OpenAI doesn't control any defaults for which AIChat service to use.
  - logical_proof 7mo ago
    Copilot?
  - 111111101101 7mo ago
    It took Google a decade before they released Chrome so OpenAI has plenty of time to have a Chrome moment. Maybe it'll be something that comes from the OpenClaw acqui-hires?
    - DrScientist 7mo ago
      During that time - as was pointed out elsewhere - Google search was simply way better than the alternatives - embarrassingly so. It also paid the Mozilla foundation lots of money to be the default.
    - arw0n 7mo ago
      Google wasn't bleeding money like crazy at the time. Google was operating in a post-hype cycle. We are most likely somewhere in an epsilon around the peak of the AI hype and OpenAI is more comparable to AOL or Yahoo. One striking similarity is the inability to innovate themselves, instead relying on copying others or acquiring. The OpenClaw guy is surely a decent product person, but OpenClaw did not innovate in any real sense. He was just pushing an existing idea to the limit without any concern for quality or security. It had its hype moment, it inspired a bunch of people, and might find its own niche, but it is a flavor of the week kind of thing. I've been getting a lot more cold-calls by non-technical people in the last few weeks thanks to it. Congratulations, the quality threshold that justifies my response rose in equal measure. Nothing was gained, just a lot of tokens spent.
    - danesparza 7mo ago
      Um. Google has already integrated Gemini into Chrome. I'm not sure what you mean by "OpenAI has plenty of time to have a Chrome moment". If you're just referring to the browser wars, the original wars were fought (furiously) between Microsoft, Mozilla, (and to a lesser extent Apple). Microsoft thought they had won, and then Chrome came out.
- matthewkayin 7mo ago
  I've been feeling the pain of google being awful for a while now. Do you have a different search engine you would recommend?
  - rkomorn 7mo ago
    I used Kagi for several months, I guess I'd at least recommend trying it out. I stopped using it, though, and I can't honestly say I've missed it. It was nice not having sponsored results, I guess, but overall it didn't feel like a transformative experience.
  - seesaw 7mo ago
    I have been using duckduckgo for a long time.
  - flaburgan 7mo ago
    I am using duckduckgo for a decade. But especially, I am using Firefox Saved searches a lot. I type mdn in the bar, and it searches in the Mozilla developer network. osm is openstreetmap, so is stackoverflow, w is Wikipedia, yt is YouTube... I often know on which website I will find the info anyway, so I use less a generic search
- twelve40 7mo ago
  > It’s not anymore (actually google is awful now) and people are still using it if people are still using it, then it's really one of the few things, right? * you are wrong and it's not awful * it _is_ awful but good enough for normal people to never care about alternatives, which are anyway not even very easy to find given the absolute stranglehold google has on that slice either way not quite the same as choice of llms today.
- Spivak 7mo ago
  Yeah but the only alternative that's actually better is paid. Google is still best ad supported search engine out there. There's no one obvious to turn to or recommend. The best free alternative to Google right is ironically $preferred_llm_provider and ChatGPT is the obvious uncapped free option. I think free will end up being OpenAI's most if they manage to make it profitable.
hn_throwaway_99 7mo ago
Google was better, but I'd argue that, say after 2014 or so, for the vast majority of my searches there was no real difference with Bing, and in some areas Bing was better (e.g. some aerial imagery in maps). Bing still never made a considerable dent in Google's market. I can easily see ChatGPT being a similar story.
- DeusExMachina 7mo ago
  You are forgetting all the money Google pays to be the default search engine in every browser.

Don’t you think that’s because Google was objectively a head above everyone other search engine for a long time?

by b3kart 7mo ago

Don’t you think that’s because Google was objectively a head above everyone other search engine for a long time?

azan_ 7mo ago

It’s not anymore (actually google is awful now) and people are still using it

DrScientist 7mo ago
As Chrome has about 75% market share across all platforms - probably 90% of those use the google default. As far as I'm aware OpenAI doesn't control any defaults for which AIChat service to use.
- logical_proof 7mo ago
  Copilot?
- 111111101101 7mo ago
  It took Google a decade before they released Chrome so OpenAI has plenty of time to have a Chrome moment. Maybe it'll be something that comes from the OpenClaw acqui-hires?
  - DrScientist 7mo ago
    During that time - as was pointed out elsewhere - Google search was simply way better than the alternatives - embarrassingly so. It also paid the Mozilla foundation lots of money to be the default.
  - arw0n 7mo ago
    Google wasn't bleeding money like crazy at the time. Google was operating in a post-hype cycle. We are most likely somewhere in an epsilon around the peak of the AI hype and OpenAI is more comparable to AOL or Yahoo. One striking similarity is the inability to innovate themselves, instead relying on copying others or acquiring. The OpenClaw guy is surely a decent product person, but OpenClaw did not innovate in any real sense. He was just pushing an existing idea to the limit without any concern for quality or security. It had its hype moment, it inspired a bunch of people, and might find its own niche, but it is a flavor of the week kind of thing. I've been getting a lot more cold-calls by non-technical people in the last few weeks thanks to it. Congratulations, the quality threshold that justifies my response rose in equal measure. Nothing was gained, just a lot of tokens spent.
  - danesparza 7mo ago
    Um. Google has already integrated Gemini into Chrome. I'm not sure what you mean by "OpenAI has plenty of time to have a Chrome moment". If you're just referring to the browser wars, the original wars were fought (furiously) between Microsoft, Mozilla, (and to a lesser extent Apple). Microsoft thought they had won, and then Chrome came out.
matthewkayin 7mo ago
I've been feeling the pain of google being awful for a while now. Do you have a different search engine you would recommend?
- rkomorn 7mo ago
  I used Kagi for several months, I guess I'd at least recommend trying it out. I stopped using it, though, and I can't honestly say I've missed it. It was nice not having sponsored results, I guess, but overall it didn't feel like a transformative experience.
- seesaw 7mo ago
  I have been using duckduckgo for a long time.
- flaburgan 7mo ago
  I am using duckduckgo for a decade. But especially, I am using Firefox Saved searches a lot. I type mdn in the bar, and it searches in the Mozilla developer network. osm is openstreetmap, so is stackoverflow, w is Wikipedia, yt is YouTube... I often know on which website I will find the info anyway, so I use less a generic search
twelve40 7mo ago
> It’s not anymore (actually google is awful now) and people are still using it if people are still using it, then it's really one of the few things, right? * you are wrong and it's not awful * it _is_ awful but good enough for normal people to never care about alternatives, which are anyway not even very easy to find given the absolute stranglehold google has on that slice either way not quite the same as choice of llms today.
Spivak 7mo ago
Yeah but the only alternative that's actually better is paid. Google is still best ad supported search engine out there. There's no one obvious to turn to or recommend. The best free alternative to Google right is ironically $preferred_llm_provider and ChatGPT is the obvious uncapped free option. I think free will end up being OpenAI's most if they manage to make it profitable.

hn_throwaway_99 7mo ago

Google was better, but I'd argue that, say after 2014 or so, for the vast majority of my searches there was no real difference with Bing, and in some areas Bing was better (e.g. some aerial imagery in maps). Bing still never made a considerable dent in Google's market. I can easily see ChatGPT being a similar story.

DeusExMachina 7mo ago
You are forgetting all the money Google pays to be the default search engine in every browser.