9 ms·

"Commercial speech" being protected by free speech laws anywhere is abhorrent. The advertising industry, in and of itself, seems abhorrent to me. It's one of th

by Funes- 7mo ago

"Commercial speech" being protected by free speech laws anywhere is abhorrent. The advertising industry, in and of itself, seems abhorrent to me. It's one of the worst things humans have come up with, ever.

nickff 7mo ago
Could one not categorize material published in a book, magazine, or on television as 'commercial speech', liable to restrictive licensing and censorship? This seems like a slippery slope which the USA is on the correct side of.
- coldtea 7mo ago
  Commercial speech is not the same as advertising. The product is the same as the speech, whereas in advertising the speech is in sycophantic service of another product.
  - nickff 7mo ago
    I agree that commercial speech is not the same as advertising, but the comment I replied to was talking about restricting commercial speech, not advertising.
AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
I'm kind of curious how people think a new business should make its existence known to prospective customers.
- mrob 7mo ago
  Searchable catalogues of products with prices and features listed.
  - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
    That assumes the customer is aware that the product exists.
    - mrob 7mo ago
      It only assumes they are aware that the category of products exists, and ordinary word-of-mouth communication is sufficient to propagate that knowledge.
      - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
        How does word-of-mouth communication propagate knowledge that is currently in the possession of zero existing customers? Or operate for products that people have little reason to discuss with other people? Suppose you sell insulation and replacing the insulation in an existing house could save $2 in heating and cooling for each $1 the insulation costs. Most people know that insulation exists, but what causes them to realize that they should be in the market for it when they "already have it"?
        mrob 7mo ago
        People don't need to discuss specific products, they only need to be aware of the existence of product categories. If it's genuinely the case that whole product categories are unknown to many people who could realistically benefit from them, as determined by a disinterested third party, an exception could be made for advertising that does not mention specific products or brands. The insulation example can be solved by publication of data on average heating costs. When people learn that their neighbors are paying less they will be naturally incentivized to investigate why. Equivalent problems can be solved with the same general technique.
        AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
        > If it's genuinely the case that whole product categories are unknown to many people who could realistically benefit from them, as determined by a disinterested third party, an exception could be made for advertising that does not mention specific products or brands. Now all of the "brought to you by America's <industry group>" ads are back in. So is every pharma ad and every other patented product because they don't have to tell you a brand when there is only one producer. > The insulation example can be solved by publication of data on average heating costs. Publication where? In the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"? Also, who decides to publish it, decides what it will say or pays the costs of writing and distributing it?
- coldtea 7mo ago
  It's 2026. We can have word of mouth, genuine, in forums and social media. We can have reviews, genuine, in websites. We can have websites which present new products and business, not as paid sponsorships. We can search on our own initiative and go to their website. We can have online catalogs. And tons of other ways.
  - tomnipotent 7mo ago
    And not a single one of these is tenable, even when combined. How do the people that post reviews, or spread something over word-of-mouth, discover the thing in the first place? Try your hand at starting a business and trying to sell goods or services using these methods and see how well it works.
    - tforcram 7mo ago
      Tenable for what, global business? Many local businesses do fine without advertising and/or using these methods. Making global business harder and forcing things more local actually sounds like a great benefit.
      - coldtea 7mo ago
        I'm all for that as well. We could use less 1T companies and more a few billion or 100s of millions level companies too. I miss the "focused on Mac and iPod" era Apple.
        Matticus_Rex 7mo ago
        Banning advertising would have the opposite effect; entrenched players would have a massive moat. The biggest gains from advertising by far accrue to newer entrants, not the big companies.
      - tomnipotent 7mo ago
        Everything single one of those local businesses is also doing advertising, and is probably how you found them in the first place. They're buying local newspaper adverts, using flyers, or participating in valpaks/coupon mailers.
- BurningFrog 7mo ago
  They don't think of that. At all. Many don't think businesses should exist in the first place.
BurningFrog 7mo ago
You make your feelings clear, but don't give any arguments for it. That won't convince anyone.
phyzix5761 7mo ago
99.9% of businesses in the US are considered small businesses. If we look at all the businesses in the world small businesses make up an even larger percentage. In most parts of the world these are people with 0-5 employees; meaning they're just families and individuals trying to make ends meet. If you remove the ability for these people to advertise there goes their livelihood. I understand the desire to want to punish big evil corporations but all this will do is strengthen them because they're the ones who have enough capital to survive something like this and scoop up the marketshare left behind by the millions of small businesses that will fail when this is implemented.
- NeutralCrane 7mo ago
  99.9% of small businesses do little to no advertising. I can’t recall seeing an ad for a single one of the small businesses I am a customer of. 99.9% of ads I get are for megacorporations and national brands.
  - phyzix5761 7mo ago
    I know people who do moderation for the advertising side of social platforms and they say that more than half of the advertising submissions are done by small businesses. They said that the estimate is around 90% of small businesses use internet advertising in some capacity. There's a bidding mechanism, though, so more big business ads may be shown; especially if you live in a populated region. But that's just a numbers game.

by Funes- 7mo ago

nickff 7mo ago

Could one not categorize material published in a book, magazine, or on television as 'commercial speech', liable to restrictive licensing and censorship? This seems like a slippery slope which the USA is on the correct side of.

coldtea 7mo ago
Commercial speech is not the same as advertising. The product is the same as the speech, whereas in advertising the speech is in sycophantic service of another product.
- nickff 7mo ago
  I agree that commercial speech is not the same as advertising, but the comment I replied to was talking about restricting commercial speech, not advertising.

AnthonyMouse 7mo ago

I'm kind of curious how people think a new business should make its existence known to prospective customers.

mrob 7mo ago
Searchable catalogues of products with prices and features listed.
- AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
  That assumes the customer is aware that the product exists.
  - mrob 7mo ago
    It only assumes they are aware that the category of products exists, and ordinary word-of-mouth communication is sufficient to propagate that knowledge.
    - AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
      How does word-of-mouth communication propagate knowledge that is currently in the possession of zero existing customers? Or operate for products that people have little reason to discuss with other people? Suppose you sell insulation and replacing the insulation in an existing house could save $2 in heating and cooling for each $1 the insulation costs. Most people know that insulation exists, but what causes them to realize that they should be in the market for it when they "already have it"?
      - mrob 7mo ago
        People don't need to discuss specific products, they only need to be aware of the existence of product categories. If it's genuinely the case that whole product categories are unknown to many people who could realistically benefit from them, as determined by a disinterested third party, an exception could be made for advertising that does not mention specific products or brands. The insulation example can be solved by publication of data on average heating costs. When people learn that their neighbors are paying less they will be naturally incentivized to investigate why. Equivalent problems can be solved with the same general technique.
        AnthonyMouse 7mo ago
        > If it's genuinely the case that whole product categories are unknown to many people who could realistically benefit from them, as determined by a disinterested third party, an exception could be made for advertising that does not mention specific products or brands. Now all of the "brought to you by America's <industry group>" ads are back in. So is every pharma ad and every other patented product because they don't have to tell you a brand when there is only one producer. > The insulation example can be solved by publication of data on average heating costs. Publication where? In the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"? Also, who decides to publish it, decides what it will say or pays the costs of writing and distributing it?
coldtea 7mo ago
It's 2026. We can have word of mouth, genuine, in forums and social media. We can have reviews, genuine, in websites. We can have websites which present new products and business, not as paid sponsorships. We can search on our own initiative and go to their website. We can have online catalogs. And tons of other ways.
- tomnipotent 7mo ago
  And not a single one of these is tenable, even when combined. How do the people that post reviews, or spread something over word-of-mouth, discover the thing in the first place? Try your hand at starting a business and trying to sell goods or services using these methods and see how well it works.
  - tforcram 7mo ago
    Tenable for what, global business? Many local businesses do fine without advertising and/or using these methods. Making global business harder and forcing things more local actually sounds like a great benefit.
    - coldtea 7mo ago
      I'm all for that as well. We could use less 1T companies and more a few billion or 100s of millions level companies too. I miss the "focused on Mac and iPod" era Apple.
      - Matticus_Rex 7mo ago
        Banning advertising would have the opposite effect; entrenched players would have a massive moat. The biggest gains from advertising by far accrue to newer entrants, not the big companies.
    - tomnipotent 7mo ago
      Everything single one of those local businesses is also doing advertising, and is probably how you found them in the first place. They're buying local newspaper adverts, using flyers, or participating in valpaks/coupon mailers.
BurningFrog 7mo ago
They don't think of that. At all. Many don't think businesses should exist in the first place.

BurningFrog 7mo ago

You make your feelings clear, but don't give any arguments for it. That won't convince anyone.

phyzix5761 7mo ago

99.9% of businesses in the US are considered small businesses. If we look at all the businesses in the world small businesses make up an even larger percentage. In most parts of the world these are people with 0-5 employees; meaning they're just families and individuals trying to make ends meet. If you remove the ability for these people to advertise there goes their livelihood. I understand the desire to want to punish big evil corporations but all this will do is strengthen them because they're the ones who have enough capital to survive something like this and scoop up the marketshare left behind by the millions of small businesses that will fail when this is implemented.

NeutralCrane 7mo ago
99.9% of small businesses do little to no advertising. I can’t recall seeing an ad for a single one of the small businesses I am a customer of. 99.9% of ads I get are for megacorporations and national brands.
- phyzix5761 7mo ago
  I know people who do moderation for the advertising side of social platforms and they say that more than half of the advertising submissions are done by small businesses. They said that the estimate is around 90% of small businesses use internet advertising in some capacity. There's a bidding mechanism, though, so more big business ads may be shown; especially if you live in a populated region. But that's just a numbers game.