6 ms·

And that’s fine. Another follows after. If we leave them something.

mrguyorama 7mo ago
Part of the problem is that industrialization was achieved by exploiting globs of easily available resources. But we used them all. We haven't left anyone something. It could very well be that we climbed the ladder and burned it behind us.
- junofan 7mo ago
  Biomass can substitute. You have to defend it, which is difficult if rivals have petroleum. But that wouldn’t be an issue if nobody had petroleum. We haven’t burned the ladder.
- philipallstar 7mo ago
  What do you mean, we haven't left anyone something?
  - rationalist 7mo ago
    I've heard a few people say we've already drilled all of the easy-to-get oil, so the next civilization may not develop using oil. But maybe all that means is they will master some other technology that we did not. It seems like previous civilizations have mastered technology that we cannot figure out.
    - philipallstar 7mo ago
      > It seems like previous civilizations have mastered technology that we cannot figure out. That was true for a while (e.g. in Britain they spent 500 years figuring out what the colonising Romans had done to try and recreate their advances), but I don't think we're now in that situation. The best thing would've been to mostly convert electricity to nuclear in the 1980s, as by now we'd be handing over ultra advanced nuclear designs and low carbon to the future. Now we're just playing catch-up with the 1980s.
- lyu07282 7mo ago
  Colonialism never really ended it just transitioned into a different form, sometimes even very overtly like parts of africa are still using the french colonial currency union (CFA) for example, the IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone
  - cpursley 7mo ago
    I'm happy other people are thinking about this. One of the big stories over the fast years that few know about is a number of the French colonies kicking off the shackles. Can they make it on their own or with their new Chinese and Russian "friends"? Guess we'll see.
    - lyu07282 7mo ago
      This platform is 90% just comfortable shitlibs living in the imperial core, so can't expect much. I think BRICS is the best thing that ever happened to the global south, if only to provide a counterbalance to the western 'empire of chaos'. As a Kenyan official put it: "Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture."
  - wahern 7mo ago
    > IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone Countries invite IMF assistance. If they wanted to be left alone, all they have to do is do nothing. If IMF loans didn't have strings attached, they wouldn't be able to borrow money, as it's those strings which build bond investor confidence. The entire point of IMF assistance is to avoid being cutoff from international borrowing for being horrible credit risks (again). The root cause of national debt problems is primarily government corruption, but also mismanagement, often at the behest of populist politics that excuse economic policy failures by, e.g., scapegoating outside forces. The US isn't immune to this problem, either, it just happens that the US had, albeit intermittently, long enough runs of solid financial management (e.g. Hamilton during the Founding) that it could grow an economic base that could withstand intermittent periods of mismanagement without the entire economy collapsing (yet). Even when a country is dealt a really crappy hand at the outset, it's not irreversible. Haiti is the poster child for crushing debt unfairly imposed by foreign powers, yet the Dominican Republic had the same history, but managed to overcome it. In some instances, interventions blamed for keeping Haiti oppressed were precisely what helped the Dominican Republic flourish. Likewise, nobody hears about the IMF success stories, just the failures; and it's not because the former don't exist or are rare.
- senkora 7mo ago
  This is part of the civilizational collapse narrative. It is definitely true in a way. I think that how much it would end up mattering depends on how well solar tech would withstand a civilizational collapse. I think that a proto-industrial society with photovoltaics and batteries would be able to bootstrap itself back up to the present state, even without easily exploitable fossil fuels. (I am not an expert in any of this)
  - trollbridge 7mo ago
    How are they going to make pv’s and batteries in the first place?

Part of the problem is that industrialization was achieved by exploiting globs of easily available resources. But we used them all. We haven't left anyone something. It could very well be that we climbed the ladder and burned it behind us.

junofan 7mo ago
Biomass can substitute. You have to defend it, which is difficult if rivals have petroleum. But that wouldn’t be an issue if nobody had petroleum. We haven’t burned the ladder.
philipallstar 7mo ago
What do you mean, we haven't left anyone something?
- rationalist 7mo ago
  I've heard a few people say we've already drilled all of the easy-to-get oil, so the next civilization may not develop using oil. But maybe all that means is they will master some other technology that we did not. It seems like previous civilizations have mastered technology that we cannot figure out.
  - philipallstar 7mo ago
    > It seems like previous civilizations have mastered technology that we cannot figure out. That was true for a while (e.g. in Britain they spent 500 years figuring out what the colonising Romans had done to try and recreate their advances), but I don't think we're now in that situation. The best thing would've been to mostly convert electricity to nuclear in the 1980s, as by now we'd be handing over ultra advanced nuclear designs and low carbon to the future. Now we're just playing catch-up with the 1980s.
lyu07282 7mo ago
Colonialism never really ended it just transitioned into a different form, sometimes even very overtly like parts of africa are still using the french colonial currency union (CFA) for example, the IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone
- cpursley 7mo ago
  I'm happy other people are thinking about this. One of the big stories over the fast years that few know about is a number of the French colonies kicking off the shackles. Can they make it on their own or with their new Chinese and Russian "friends"? Guess we'll see.
  - lyu07282 7mo ago
    This platform is 90% just comfortable shitlibs living in the imperial core, so can't expect much. I think BRICS is the best thing that ever happened to the global south, if only to provide a counterbalance to the western 'empire of chaos'. As a Kenyan official put it: "Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture."
- wahern 7mo ago
  > IMF keeps the global south in debt entrapment with structural adjustment programs designed to prevent development. etc. etc. we never really left them alone Countries invite IMF assistance. If they wanted to be left alone, all they have to do is do nothing. If IMF loans didn't have strings attached, they wouldn't be able to borrow money, as it's those strings which build bond investor confidence. The entire point of IMF assistance is to avoid being cutoff from international borrowing for being horrible credit risks (again). The root cause of national debt problems is primarily government corruption, but also mismanagement, often at the behest of populist politics that excuse economic policy failures by, e.g., scapegoating outside forces. The US isn't immune to this problem, either, it just happens that the US had, albeit intermittently, long enough runs of solid financial management (e.g. Hamilton during the Founding) that it could grow an economic base that could withstand intermittent periods of mismanagement without the entire economy collapsing (yet). Even when a country is dealt a really crappy hand at the outset, it's not irreversible. Haiti is the poster child for crushing debt unfairly imposed by foreign powers, yet the Dominican Republic had the same history, but managed to overcome it. In some instances, interventions blamed for keeping Haiti oppressed were precisely what helped the Dominican Republic flourish. Likewise, nobody hears about the IMF success stories, just the failures; and it's not because the former don't exist or are rare.
senkora 7mo ago
This is part of the civilizational collapse narrative. It is definitely true in a way. I think that how much it would end up mattering depends on how well solar tech would withstand a civilizational collapse. I think that a proto-industrial society with photovoltaics and batteries would be able to bootstrap itself back up to the present state, even without easily exploitable fossil fuels. (I am not an expert in any of this)
- trollbridge 7mo ago
  How are they going to make pv’s and batteries in the first place?