10 ms·

It's a social contract, which for many people is a moral contract.

by growse 7mo ago

StopDisinfo910 7mo ago
Where is this mythical social contract found? I stand by my point: it's a software license, not a marriage. Free users certainly would like it to be a social contract like I would like to be gifted a million dollars. Sadly, I still have to work and can't infinitely rely on the generosity of others.
- account42 7mo ago
  Where is the contract to return the shopping cart to the corral?
  - StopDisinfo910 7mo ago
    Your analogy doesn't make sense. You are getting benefits from using the shopping cart and you bring back as it's expected as part of the exchange. You bring the cart back to where you took which is a low effort commitment entirely proportional to what you got from it. Free software developers are gifting you something. Expecting indefinite free work is not mutual respect. That's entitlement. The common is still there. You have the code. Open source is not a perpetual service agreement. It is not indentured servitude to the community. Stop trying to guilt trip people into giving you free work.
    - thayne 7mo ago
      MinIO accepted contributions from people outside the company who did work on it for free, usually because they expected that minio would keep the software open source.
      - StopDisinfo910 7mo ago
        The last open source version of MinIO didn't disappear when they stopped maintaining it.
  - imtringued 7mo ago
    In this context the social contract would be an expectation that specifically software developers must return the shopping cart for you, but you would never expect the same from cashiers, construction workers, etc. If the software developer doesn't return your cart, he betrayed the social contract. This sounds very manipulative and narcissistic.
  - bee_rider 7mo ago
    I always preferred people who didn’t, when I worked in retail. It generates a nice chill task (wander around the parking lot looking for carts). But if you want to do a favor for the faceless retailer, go for it. Mostly I chuck my cart in the corral to get it out of my way, but this sees more like a morally-neutral action to me.
- growse 7mo ago
  The social contract is found (and implicitly negotiated) in the interactions between humans, ie: society.
  - yunwal 7mo ago
    Seems like the interaction that happened here was that they stopped supporting it
  - antonvs 7mo ago
    Sounds like you've misunderstood this particular social contract. Luckily several people in this thread have corrected you.
627467 7mo ago
Show me a FOSS license where a commitment to indefinite maintenance is promised.
- account42 7mo ago
  Social contracts are typically unwritten so the license would be the wrong place to look for it.
  - skeledrew 7mo ago
    If it's neither written nor explicitly spoken, then it's not a contract of any kind. It's just an - usually naive - expectation.
    - account42 7mo ago
      A social contract isn't a legal contract to begin with, but even for those "written or explicitly spoken" is not a hard requirement.
      - skeledrew 7mo ago
        A social contract still has to be explicit in some way to be considered such. Otherwise it's just an accepted convention.
        jhbadger 7mo ago
        That's not what a social contract is you are thinking of a legal contract, something very different. A social contract is by definition, implicit rather than explicit.
    - dbacar 7mo ago
      It was not expectation when they started, did a lot to lure many into the ecosystem. When you release it free, wait for the momentum to build, then you cut off, it is something else. And the worse is they did it in a very short time. Check out elasticsearch, the same route but did not abandon the 7 release like this.
kube-system 7mo ago
No, social contracts require some sort of mutual benefit.
PKop 7mo ago
Expectations are maybe fine maybe not, but it's funny that people can slap the word moral onto their expectation of others being obligated to do free work for them, and it's supposed to make them be the good guys here. Why do you presume to think your definition of morals is shared by everyone? Why is entitlement to others labor the moral position, instead of the immoral position?
- growse 7mo ago
  > Why is entitlement to others labor the moral position, instead of the immoral position? You seem to be mistaking me for someone arguing that anyone is entitled to others' labour?

It's a social contract, which for many people is a moral contract.

by growse 7mo ago

It's a social contract, which for many people is a moral contract.

Where is this mythical social contract found? I stand by my point: it's a software license, not a marriage. Free users certainly would like it to be a social contract like I would like to be gifted a million dollars. Sadly, I still have to work and can't infinitely rely on the generosity of others.

account42 7mo ago
Where is the contract to return the shopping cart to the corral?
- StopDisinfo910 7mo ago
  Your analogy doesn't make sense. You are getting benefits from using the shopping cart and you bring back as it's expected as part of the exchange. You bring the cart back to where you took which is a low effort commitment entirely proportional to what you got from it. Free software developers are gifting you something. Expecting indefinite free work is not mutual respect. That's entitlement. The common is still there. You have the code. Open source is not a perpetual service agreement. It is not indentured servitude to the community. Stop trying to guilt trip people into giving you free work.
  - thayne 7mo ago
    MinIO accepted contributions from people outside the company who did work on it for free, usually because they expected that minio would keep the software open source.
    - StopDisinfo910 7mo ago
      The last open source version of MinIO didn't disappear when they stopped maintaining it.
- imtringued 7mo ago
  In this context the social contract would be an expectation that specifically software developers must return the shopping cart for you, but you would never expect the same from cashiers, construction workers, etc. If the software developer doesn't return your cart, he betrayed the social contract. This sounds very manipulative and narcissistic.
- bee_rider 7mo ago
  I always preferred people who didn’t, when I worked in retail. It generates a nice chill task (wander around the parking lot looking for carts). But if you want to do a favor for the faceless retailer, go for it. Mostly I chuck my cart in the corral to get it out of my way, but this sees more like a morally-neutral action to me.
growse 7mo ago
The social contract is found (and implicitly negotiated) in the interactions between humans, ie: society.
- yunwal 7mo ago
  Seems like the interaction that happened here was that they stopped supporting it
- antonvs 7mo ago
  Sounds like you've misunderstood this particular social contract. Luckily several people in this thread have corrected you.

627467 7mo ago

Show me a FOSS license where a commitment to indefinite maintenance is promised.

account42 7mo ago
Social contracts are typically unwritten so the license would be the wrong place to look for it.
- skeledrew 7mo ago
  If it's neither written nor explicitly spoken, then it's not a contract of any kind. It's just an - usually naive - expectation.
  - account42 7mo ago
    A social contract isn't a legal contract to begin with, but even for those "written or explicitly spoken" is not a hard requirement.
    - skeledrew 7mo ago
      A social contract still has to be explicit in some way to be considered such. Otherwise it's just an accepted convention.
      - jhbadger 7mo ago
        That's not what a social contract is you are thinking of a legal contract, something very different. A social contract is by definition, implicit rather than explicit.
  - dbacar 7mo ago
    It was not expectation when they started, did a lot to lure many into the ecosystem. When you release it free, wait for the momentum to build, then you cut off, it is something else. And the worse is they did it in a very short time. Check out elasticsearch, the same route but did not abandon the 7 release like this.

kube-system 7mo ago

No, social contracts require some sort of mutual benefit.

PKop 7mo ago

Expectations are maybe fine maybe not, but it's funny that people can slap the word moral onto their expectation of others being obligated to do free work for them, and it's supposed to make them be the good guys here. Why do you presume to think your definition of morals is shared by everyone? Why is entitlement to others labor the moral position, instead of the immoral position?

growse 7mo ago
> Why is entitlement to others labor the moral position, instead of the immoral position? You seem to be mistaking me for someone arguing that anyone is entitled to others' labour?