6 ms·

This also applies to other things. No one person knows how to make a pencil. Three minute video by Milton Friedman: https://youtu.be/67tHtpac5ws?si=nFOLok7o87b

This also applies to other things. No one person knows how to make a pencil. Three minute video by Milton Friedman: https://youtu.be/67tHtpac5ws?si=nFOLok7o87b8UXxY https://youtu.be/67tHtpac5ws?si=nFOLok7o87b8UXxY

j_m_b 7mo ago
Also, no one knows how to make a Pizza! (great book for kids)
- pixl97 7mo ago
  "To make an apple pie you must first create the universe "
  - AnimalMuppet 7mo ago
    "How to Make an Apple Pie and See The World" (https://www.amazon.com/Make-Apple-World-Dragonfly-Books/dp/0679880836 https://www.amazon.com/Make-Apple-World-Dragonfly-Books/dp/0...). Great kids book.
  - Bender 7mo ago
    Obligatory Sagan [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHCO8f2TWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHCO8f2TWs
- germinalphrase 7mo ago
  Somewhat off topic for the thread, but I would love more kids book recommendations for expanding their mental model of the world if we can keep them coming…
alphazard 7mo ago
The series this is from (Free to Choose) is a great introduction to economics for people of any age. I highly recommend it. This particular example can be misinterpreted though. It's true that no single person knows how to make that exact pencil that he is holding. But it's not true that no single individual exists who can make a pencil by themselves. If the criteria is just that it works as a pencil, then many people could make or find something that fills that criteria. This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. But also: no single person could alone build something that has anywhere near the same capability. It's conceivable that a civilization could forget how to do something like that because it requires so many people with non-overlapping knowledge to create anything close. We aren't going to forget how to make pencils because it is such a simple problem, that many individuals are capable of figuring out workable solutions alone.
- lloeki 7mo ago
  > This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. But also: no single person could alone build something that has anywhere near the same capability I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0 The levels of advanced _whatever_ that we've reached is absurdly bonkers. It seems to me that at some point in the last 50 or so years the world went from "given a lot of time I can make a _crude_ but reasonably functional version of whatever XYZ in my garage" to "it requires the structural backbone of a whole civilization to achieve XYZ". Of course it's sort of a delusion. Maybe it's more about the ramp appearing more exponential than ever.
- sgarland 7mo ago
  > This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. That depends on your definition of “knows how to make.” I worked at Samsung Austin Semiconductor for a while, and there are some insanely smart and knowledgeable people there (and, I’m sure, at every other semiconductor company). It was actually a really good life experience for me, because it grounded and humbled me in the way that only working around borderline genius can. I can describe to you all the steps that go into manufacturing a silicon wafer, with more detail in my particular area (wet cleans) than others, but I certainly can’t answer any and all questions about the process. However, I am nearly certain that there existed at least one person at SAS who could describe every step of every process in such excruciating detail that, given enough time and skilled workers (you said “know,” not “do” - I am under no delusion that a single person could ever hope to build a fab), they could bootstrap a fab.
  - bethekidyouwant 7mo ago
    There are still innumerable supply chains they know nothing about. Can they run a strip mine? Fix the diesel trucks that run on the mine?
GeoAtreides 7mo ago
That's false, I know exactly how to make a pencil. I know because I look it up in case I'm mysteriously transported back to the Roman Empire times. The hard part is finding graphite (somewhere in Wales? looks like lead, but softer and leaves traces on sheep's wool). Then suitable clay to make the lead. Then some kind of glue to glue the two parts of the pencil (boil some bones and cartilages?).
- B56b 7mo ago
  The task isn't "make something that you could plausibly call a pencil". It's "understand every step of how a modern pencil is produced".
- buildsjets 7mo ago
  What about the eraser? What about the machine that mills the pumice that goes in the eraser? What about the yellow paint? Are you gonna go with cadmium pigment or something that won’t kill children, and if so, what? How to you plan to refine the bauxite ore to make the aluminum ferrule that attaches the eraser to the pencil? Were you aware that they are aluminum, or called ferrules? What about the machine that makes the pierced holes through the ferrule that retains the eraser? I know a shitload of trivia about both manufacturing and pencils. But I could not possibly recreate all the processes needed to manufacture a pencil. I learned a lot about pencils from this article. It is also applicable to jet engines. http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/articles/tsodpencil.pdf http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/articles/tsodpencil.pdf

j_m_b 7mo ago

Also, no one knows how to make a Pizza! (great book for kids)

pixl97 7mo ago
"To make an apple pie you must first create the universe "
- AnimalMuppet 7mo ago
  "How to Make an Apple Pie and See The World" (https://www.amazon.com/Make-Apple-World-Dragonfly-Books/dp/0679880836 https://www.amazon.com/Make-Apple-World-Dragonfly-Books/dp/0...). Great kids book.
- Bender 7mo ago
  Obligatory Sagan [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHCO8f2TWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkHCO8f2TWs
germinalphrase 7mo ago
Somewhat off topic for the thread, but I would love more kids book recommendations for expanding their mental model of the world if we can keep them coming…

alphazard 7mo ago

The series this is from (Free to Choose) is a great introduction to economics for people of any age. I highly recommend it. This particular example can be misinterpreted though. It's true that no single person knows how to make that exact pencil that he is holding. But it's not true that no single individual exists who can make a pencil by themselves. If the criteria is just that it works as a pencil, then many people could make or find something that fills that criteria. This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. But also: no single person could alone build something that has anywhere near the same capability. It's conceivable that a civilization could forget how to do something like that because it requires so many people with non-overlapping knowledge to create anything close. We aren't going to forget how to make pencils because it is such a simple problem, that many individuals are capable of figuring out workable solutions alone.

lloeki 7mo ago
> This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. But also: no single person could alone build something that has anywhere near the same capability I recently watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiUHjLxm3V0 The levels of advanced _whatever_ that we've reached is absurdly bonkers. It seems to me that at some point in the last 50 or so years the world went from "given a lot of time I can make a _crude_ but reasonably functional version of whatever XYZ in my garage" to "it requires the structural backbone of a whole civilization to achieve XYZ". Of course it's sort of a delusion. Maybe it's more about the ramp appearing more exponential than ever.
sgarland 7mo ago
> This is an important distinction because there are things like microprocessors, which no single person knows how to make. That depends on your definition of “knows how to make.” I worked at Samsung Austin Semiconductor for a while, and there are some insanely smart and knowledgeable people there (and, I’m sure, at every other semiconductor company). It was actually a really good life experience for me, because it grounded and humbled me in the way that only working around borderline genius can. I can describe to you all the steps that go into manufacturing a silicon wafer, with more detail in my particular area (wet cleans) than others, but I certainly can’t answer any and all questions about the process. However, I am nearly certain that there existed at least one person at SAS who could describe every step of every process in such excruciating detail that, given enough time and skilled workers (you said “know,” not “do” - I am under no delusion that a single person could ever hope to build a fab), they could bootstrap a fab.
- bethekidyouwant 7mo ago
  There are still innumerable supply chains they know nothing about. Can they run a strip mine? Fix the diesel trucks that run on the mine?

GeoAtreides 7mo ago

That's false, I know exactly how to make a pencil. I know because I look it up in case I'm mysteriously transported back to the Roman Empire times. The hard part is finding graphite (somewhere in Wales? looks like lead, but softer and leaves traces on sheep's wool). Then suitable clay to make the lead. Then some kind of glue to glue the two parts of the pencil (boil some bones and cartilages?).

B56b 7mo ago
The task isn't "make something that you could plausibly call a pencil". It's "understand every step of how a modern pencil is produced".
buildsjets 7mo ago
What about the eraser? What about the machine that mills the pumice that goes in the eraser? What about the yellow paint? Are you gonna go with cadmium pigment or something that won’t kill children, and if so, what? How to you plan to refine the bauxite ore to make the aluminum ferrule that attaches the eraser to the pencil? Were you aware that they are aluminum, or called ferrules? What about the machine that makes the pierced holes through the ferrule that retains the eraser? I know a shitload of trivia about both manufacturing and pencils. But I could not possibly recreate all the processes needed to manufacture a pencil. I learned a lot about pencils from this article. It is also applicable to jet engines. http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/articles/tsodpencil.pdf http://www.rstengineering.com/rst/articles/tsodpencil.pdf