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300,000? Can you cite something for that? Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the pr

by clucas 7mo ago

300,000? Can you cite something for that? Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the protestors in Iran kill, rape, or murder any of members of the regime who subsequently slaughtered them?

ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago
> Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the protestors in Iran kill, rape, or murder any of members of the regime who subsequently slaughtered them? Just to be clear. You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? Or are you arguing that those 300,000 were somehow involved in the killing of the 3,000 Israelis that died in the Hamas attack?
- clucas 7mo ago
  > You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? How on earth did you get that from my comment? Can you think of a more charitable way to interpret what I said?
  - ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago
    > Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the protestors in Iran kill, rape, or murder any of members of the regime who subsequently slaughtered them? So you're not saying that what Israel is doing is less bad due to the fact that it was attacked? So what are you saying then? I guess that no, I can't find a more charitable way to interpret what you said.
    - clucas 7mo ago
      >> From now on, every time anyone says anything about Iran, I'll be pushing the narrative that "whatever Iran did, it was to defend itself". > Israel was actually attacked I was responding to your claim that Iran was defending itself... Whether or not Israel responded disproportionately to October 7 (it did), I don't think it's fair to say Iran's actions are "self-defense" in the same way that Israel's war was self-defense.
      - ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago
        No, I don't agree. What is Israel is doing is WAY past the "disproportionate" conversation. For one, Israel's targets have nothing to do with the people who attacked Israel, other than they come from the same geographical area. It's like saying "bombing Italy is a disproportionate response to Luigi Mangione assassinating someone". Disproportionate would be if they caught the October 7 terrorists and their collaborators, and instead of arresting them killed them. If that was what happened, I wouldn't be morally against it.
- reliabilityguy 7mo ago
  > You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? If a country is attacked, and defends itself, are you saying it should stop any form of defense because a civilian can die? If this is the logic, then what would prevent armies from using human shields?
esafak 7mo ago
71K https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war
- clucas 7mo ago
  Right, that was the number I had in my head... and that's for the whole war. This guy apparently believes 300k were killed in the first month, but I have no idea where that's coming from.
nosuchthing 7mo ago
Debunked and no evidence, all claims came from biased sources: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-of-sexual-violence-on-oct-7-fueled-a-global-dispute-over-israel-hamas-war https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-o... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violen... Hannibal directive: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-ma... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Claimed_use_of_the_Hannibal_Directive_on_7_October_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Claimed_use...

by clucas 7mo ago

ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago

> Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the protestors in Iran kill, rape, or murder any of members of the regime who subsequently slaughtered them? Just to be clear. You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? Or are you arguing that those 300,000 were somehow involved in the killing of the 3,000 Israelis that died in the Hamas attack?

clucas 7mo ago
> You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? How on earth did you get that from my comment? Can you think of a more charitable way to interpret what I said?
- ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago
  > Edit to add: Also, Israel was actually attacked, and civilians were raped, kidnapped, and murdered. Did any of the protestors in Iran kill, rape, or murder any of members of the regime who subsequently slaughtered them? So you're not saying that what Israel is doing is less bad due to the fact that it was attacked? So what are you saying then? I guess that no, I can't find a more charitable way to interpret what you said.
  - clucas 7mo ago
    >> From now on, every time anyone says anything about Iran, I'll be pushing the narrative that "whatever Iran did, it was to defend itself". > Israel was actually attacked I was responding to your claim that Iran was defending itself... Whether or not Israel responded disproportionately to October 7 (it did), I don't think it's fair to say Iran's actions are "self-defense" in the same way that Israel's war was self-defense.
    - ekjhgkejhgk 7mo ago
      No, I don't agree. What is Israel is doing is WAY past the "disproportionate" conversation. For one, Israel's targets have nothing to do with the people who attacked Israel, other than they come from the same geographical area. It's like saying "bombing Italy is a disproportionate response to Luigi Mangione assassinating someone". Disproportionate would be if they caught the October 7 terrorists and their collaborators, and instead of arresting them killed them. If that was what happened, I wouldn't be morally against it.
reliabilityguy 7mo ago
> You're arguing that if a country is attacked, it's ok to kill civilians that are unrelated to the attack? If a country is attacked, and defends itself, are you saying it should stop any form of defense because a civilian can die? If this is the logic, then what would prevent armies from using human shields?

esafak 7mo ago

71K https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war

clucas 7mo ago
Right, that was the number I had in my head... and that's for the whole war. This guy apparently believes 300k were killed in the first month, but I have no idea where that's coming from.

nosuchthing 7mo ago

Debunked and no evidence, all claims came from biased sources: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-of-sexual-violence-on-oct-7-fueled-a-global-dispute-over-israel-hamas-war https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-2-debunked-accounts-o... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violen... Hannibal directive: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-ma... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Claimed_use_of_the_Hannibal_Directive_on_7_October_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Claimed_use...