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This is not hype-chasing. AI is a key part of software engineering now. For this to be absent from Xcode would be an existential risk for the future of the prod

by markbao 8mo ago

This is not hype-chasing. AI is a key part of software engineering now. For this to be absent from Xcode would be an existential risk for the future of the product.

eptcyka 8mo ago
Claude Code from the terminal is servicable enough. Yet I cannot open the same project from different versions of Xcode without some manual finnagling. Xcode is at no existential risk for it is the only tool you are allowed to use to reach your audience on the app store. Don’t be ridiculous. The reason Xcode is as broken as it is today is because of the same exact reason. The developer experience need not be great, as long as you can coax the trash fire of a toolchain to upload a signed app to AppStoreConnect, there is 0 incentive for Apple to put any time into the tool.
- neutronicus 8mo ago
  For a certain-size project it really is not. Single files in our codebase already blow the Copilot query token limit. Great, Anthropic taught Claude to grep. On our project, it's still useless because it can't use the semantic search in the IDE.
  - gbalduzzi 8mo ago
    > Single files in our codebase already blow the Copilot query token limit. This tells more about your code quality that about copilot, and I'm not a fan of copilot
    - neutronicus 8mo ago
      I disagree. Sure, it's a dumpster fire. But human engineers work on it just fine without investing man-decades into refactoring it into some shrine to the software engineer's craft. The whole point of AI, in our parent company's eyes, is for no one to mention "code quality" as something impeding the delivery of features, yesterday, ever.
      - SgtBastard 8mo ago
        Claude, with a modicum of guidance from an engineer familiar with your monolith, could could write comprehensive unit tests of your existing system, then refactor it into coherent composable parts, in a day. Not doing so while senior management demands the use of AI augmentation seems odd.
        neutronicus 8mo ago
        It's a 25-year-old CAD application written in very non-standard C++. I doubt it. Certainly I have tried to accomplish tasks giving Claude guidance far outstripping "a modicum".
  - throw3e98 8mo ago
    > On our project, it's still useless because it can't use the semantic search in the IDE. Zed's ACP seems to be a good solution to this - when using it, claude code has access to the IDE's diagnostics and tools, just like the human operator. https://zed.dev/acp https://zed.dev/acp
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
bigstrat2003 8mo ago
> AI is a key part of software engineering now. It most certainly is not, lol. That's the hype that the parent was referring to. Most people have found AI to be a detriment, not a benefit, to their work.
- periodjet 8mo ago
  You’d have to be deeply ensconced in a particular kind of bubble to hold this belief.
  - vor_ 8mo ago
    Speaking of bubbles...
  - gloosx 8mo ago
    ...or you have to be deeply entrenched in another kind of bubble to believe the opposite xD
- ed_mercer 8mo ago
  Then how do you explain the massive growth of Claude Code?
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - gloosx 8mo ago
    Millions in marketing efforts? Anyways, it may be a key part in generating code, but that was always a lesser part of software engineering. If it's generating code it doesn't mean it is doing any engineering for you or becoming a "key part" of it in any way.
isodev 8mo ago
> AI is a key part of software engineering now No, it isn’t. There are irresponsible voices in the community who claim that it is, but they always find convenient ways to omit the downsides (on both the tech and effects on society as a whole).

by markbao 8mo ago

This is not hype-chasing. AI is a key part of software engineering now. For this to be absent from Xcode would be an existential risk for the future of the product.

eptcyka 8mo ago

Claude Code from the terminal is servicable enough. Yet I cannot open the same project from different versions of Xcode without some manual finnagling. Xcode is at no existential risk for it is the only tool you are allowed to use to reach your audience on the app store. Don’t be ridiculous. The reason Xcode is as broken as it is today is because of the same exact reason. The developer experience need not be great, as long as you can coax the trash fire of a toolchain to upload a signed app to AppStoreConnect, there is 0 incentive for Apple to put any time into the tool.

neutronicus 8mo ago
For a certain-size project it really is not. Single files in our codebase already blow the Copilot query token limit. Great, Anthropic taught Claude to grep. On our project, it's still useless because it can't use the semantic search in the IDE.
- gbalduzzi 8mo ago
  > Single files in our codebase already blow the Copilot query token limit. This tells more about your code quality that about copilot, and I'm not a fan of copilot
  - neutronicus 8mo ago
    I disagree. Sure, it's a dumpster fire. But human engineers work on it just fine without investing man-decades into refactoring it into some shrine to the software engineer's craft. The whole point of AI, in our parent company's eyes, is for no one to mention "code quality" as something impeding the delivery of features, yesterday, ever.
    - SgtBastard 8mo ago
      Claude, with a modicum of guidance from an engineer familiar with your monolith, could could write comprehensive unit tests of your existing system, then refactor it into coherent composable parts, in a day. Not doing so while senior management demands the use of AI augmentation seems odd.
      - neutronicus 8mo ago
        It's a 25-year-old CAD application written in very non-standard C++. I doubt it. Certainly I have tried to accomplish tasks giving Claude guidance far outstripping "a modicum".
- throw3e98 8mo ago
  > On our project, it's still useless because it can't use the semantic search in the IDE. Zed's ACP seems to be a good solution to this - when using it, claude code has access to the IDE's diagnostics and tools, just like the human operator. https://zed.dev/acp https://zed.dev/acp

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

bigstrat2003 8mo ago

> AI is a key part of software engineering now. It most certainly is not, lol. That's the hype that the parent was referring to. Most people have found AI to be a detriment, not a benefit, to their work.

periodjet 8mo ago
You’d have to be deeply ensconced in a particular kind of bubble to hold this belief.
- vor_ 8mo ago
  Speaking of bubbles...
- gloosx 8mo ago
  ...or you have to be deeply entrenched in another kind of bubble to believe the opposite xD
ed_mercer 8mo ago
Then how do you explain the massive growth of Claude Code?
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- gloosx 8mo ago
  Millions in marketing efforts? Anyways, it may be a key part in generating code, but that was always a lesser part of software engineering. If it's generating code it doesn't mean it is doing any engineering for you or becoming a "key part" of it in any way.

isodev 8mo ago

> AI is a key part of software engineering now No, it isn’t. There are irresponsible voices in the community who claim that it is, but they always find convenient ways to omit the downsides (on both the tech and effects on society as a whole).