6 ms·

Why were you trying to dox the archive owner?

jdiff 8mo ago
This is misrepresentative of the situation, and an unloaded version of the question being asked here is answered within the article itself.
- JasonADrury 8mo ago
  How is it misrepresentative of the situation?
  - protimewaster 8mo ago
    Because none of the names are real and they were all already posted publicly previously. This is covered in the article.
    - JasonADrury 8mo ago
      We don't know that none of the names are real. And even if they aren't, the article is still showcasing his failed attempt at doxing the owner of archive.today and providing a starting point for anyone else wanting to try. > they were all already posted publicly previously Doxing very often consists of nothing more than collecting data from a bunch of public sources
      - protimewaster 8mo ago
        > Doxing very often consists of nothing more than collecting data from a bunch of public sources I simply don't agree that this looks like doxing. No addresses or even any private information were reported. It's just a Google using WhoIs data and, in one case, the person said, in a public forum, that archive.is is "my website." Why would they have said that if they were worried about people finding out who it belongs to? If they'd have stumbled upon an address to a private residence and reported that, sure, that would look like doxing. I just don't see it here.
        JasonADrury 8mo ago
        Call it what you will, this activity is hardly defensible.
        protimewaster 8mo ago
        I simply don't agree with that, either. It just seems like journalism to me. No details were reported that would reasonably be expected to compromise anyone's safety. Why should it be disallowed to investigate the ownership of a website? People used to do this all the time when they were going to order products from a web store they'd never used before, to try to deduce if it was trustworthy. They'd look up the owner, verify that the store has a physical address, etc. Were they not supposed to be doing that? They're just supposed to never Google any of that and just pray instead, because, if they learn any of that information, they've done something morally reprehensible? That's absurd. And, to that point, archive.is isn't so different from a store. They accept donations, so it seems perfectly reasonable to ask and answer questions about where the donations go IMO. Is it unreasonable to look at and report on Archive.org's nonprofit details?
        JasonADrury 8mo ago
        What a bizarre take. >It just seems like journalism to me. What does that even mean? Are you trying to suggest that journalism is inherently okay? A piece of despicable journalism simply cannot exist? >No details were reported that would reasonably be expected to compromise anyone's safety. So it's okay because he failed at what he set out to do? I'd counter that regardless of whether or not the doxing was successful, publishing this information serves no other purpose but to aid future attempts. >Why should it be disallowed to investigate the ownership of a website? You have to be kidding, I feel like anyone with even just the most basic social skills would be able to understand that absolutely nobody gives a shit about what you do as long as it doesn't affect other people. > And, to that point, archive.is isn't so different from a store. They accept donations, so it seems perfectly reasonable to ask and answer questions about where the donations go IMO. Obviously it is very different from a store. Besides, why would you spend time trying to identify the owner of a store who is obviously not interested in identifying themselves? Surely the right choice is to pass in approximately 100% of such cases.
philipwhiuk 8mo ago
Is it only doxxing if the organisation is digital only? Should we have no right to know who controls a large media organisation?
- mikkupikku 8mo ago
  Whether you have a right to know, according to your personal value system, is orthogonal to whether it's doxing.
  - otterley 8mo ago
    Rights don’t emanate from one’s subjective personal beliefs. Sure, there are “natural rights” espoused by political philosophers, but in the real world, rights are enshrined in constitutions and codified in laws that we are all subject to.
    - mikkupikku 8mo ago
      Again, irrelevant to the question of whether it's doxing.
      - otterley 8mo ago
        It's absolutely relevant. Some activities break the law; others don't. Why should we care about and assign a negative appellation like "doxxing" to lawful investigative activity?
        mikkupikku 8mo ago
        Whether you care about somebody getting doxed is orthogonal to whether they've been doxed. Whether you care or not is entirely up to you, it has no relevance.
- vachina 8mo ago
  This kills the organisation

jdiff 8mo ago

This is misrepresentative of the situation, and an unloaded version of the question being asked here is answered within the article itself.

JasonADrury 8mo ago
How is it misrepresentative of the situation?
- protimewaster 8mo ago
  Because none of the names are real and they were all already posted publicly previously. This is covered in the article.
  - JasonADrury 8mo ago
    We don't know that none of the names are real. And even if they aren't, the article is still showcasing his failed attempt at doxing the owner of archive.today and providing a starting point for anyone else wanting to try. > they were all already posted publicly previously Doxing very often consists of nothing more than collecting data from a bunch of public sources
    - protimewaster 8mo ago
      > Doxing very often consists of nothing more than collecting data from a bunch of public sources I simply don't agree that this looks like doxing. No addresses or even any private information were reported. It's just a Google using WhoIs data and, in one case, the person said, in a public forum, that archive.is is "my website." Why would they have said that if they were worried about people finding out who it belongs to? If they'd have stumbled upon an address to a private residence and reported that, sure, that would look like doxing. I just don't see it here.
      - JasonADrury 8mo ago
        Call it what you will, this activity is hardly defensible.
        protimewaster 8mo ago
        I simply don't agree with that, either. It just seems like journalism to me. No details were reported that would reasonably be expected to compromise anyone's safety. Why should it be disallowed to investigate the ownership of a website? People used to do this all the time when they were going to order products from a web store they'd never used before, to try to deduce if it was trustworthy. They'd look up the owner, verify that the store has a physical address, etc. Were they not supposed to be doing that? They're just supposed to never Google any of that and just pray instead, because, if they learn any of that information, they've done something morally reprehensible? That's absurd. And, to that point, archive.is isn't so different from a store. They accept donations, so it seems perfectly reasonable to ask and answer questions about where the donations go IMO. Is it unreasonable to look at and report on Archive.org's nonprofit details?
        JasonADrury 8mo ago
        What a bizarre take. >It just seems like journalism to me. What does that even mean? Are you trying to suggest that journalism is inherently okay? A piece of despicable journalism simply cannot exist? >No details were reported that would reasonably be expected to compromise anyone's safety. So it's okay because he failed at what he set out to do? I'd counter that regardless of whether or not the doxing was successful, publishing this information serves no other purpose but to aid future attempts. >Why should it be disallowed to investigate the ownership of a website? You have to be kidding, I feel like anyone with even just the most basic social skills would be able to understand that absolutely nobody gives a shit about what you do as long as it doesn't affect other people. > And, to that point, archive.is isn't so different from a store. They accept donations, so it seems perfectly reasonable to ask and answer questions about where the donations go IMO. Obviously it is very different from a store. Besides, why would you spend time trying to identify the owner of a store who is obviously not interested in identifying themselves? Surely the right choice is to pass in approximately 100% of such cases.

philipwhiuk 8mo ago

Is it only doxxing if the organisation is digital only? Should we have no right to know who controls a large media organisation?

mikkupikku 8mo ago
Whether you have a right to know, according to your personal value system, is orthogonal to whether it's doxing.
- otterley 8mo ago
  Rights don’t emanate from one’s subjective personal beliefs. Sure, there are “natural rights” espoused by political philosophers, but in the real world, rights are enshrined in constitutions and codified in laws that we are all subject to.
  - mikkupikku 8mo ago
    Again, irrelevant to the question of whether it's doxing.
    - otterley 8mo ago
      It's absolutely relevant. Some activities break the law; others don't. Why should we care about and assign a negative appellation like "doxxing" to lawful investigative activity?
      - mikkupikku 8mo ago
        Whether you care about somebody getting doxed is orthogonal to whether they've been doxed. Whether you care or not is entirely up to you, it has no relevance.
vachina 8mo ago
This kills the organisation