7 ms·

You can't really be that naive, can you

bigyabai 8mo ago
Au contraire - which Asahi-supported machines hold a candle to AMD and Intel's Linux support? I can't recommend Macs to other Linux users in good faith unless they're already stuck with the hardware and loathe macOS. If you need an ARM laptop that supports Linux, you should probably wait for Nvidia to release theirs.
- CamJN 8mo ago
  it's this part: "The top SKU has a similar performance and efficiency profile to the base M5 processor along with faster graphics performance." that is naive, this has been the standard lie told by intel as long as Apple silicon has existed, "Ignore everything we've ever done or promised before, our NEXT gen will be as fast and power efficient as apple! We promise this time!". It has never been true, and honestly I don't think it CAN be true when they have to give over a full third of their transistor budget just to decoding the abomination that is x86_64.
  - bigyabai 8mo ago
    It's believable. AMD's x86 APUs were basically neck-and-neck with the M1 in performance, and when you normalize for production processes AMD was actually more efficient under load: https://www.notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-R7-4800U_12937_11681.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-R7-4800U_12937_11681.247... x86 is the minority of the issue compared to securing cutting-edge nodes and optimizing for big.LITTLE. And once you factor in all of the dark ops on Apple Silicon (NPU, anyone?), they've basically butt up against the same wall of wasting transistors on specialized hardware that is obsolete within 3 years of release. Minus the ability to cleanly integrate it with compiler tech for efficiency gains, a-la SSE/AVX.
  - dangus 8mo ago
    Proper testing and benchmarks don’t lie. I’m not sure why you think this is an impossible feat. https://youtu.be/Xjkzb-j6nKI https://youtu.be/Xjkzb-j6nKI 12:00 mark, you can see panther lake performs better in Cyberpunk 2077 than the M5 with less power draw. 6:25, Panther Lake is barely behind the M5 chip at Cinebench. Just a slightly lower score at the same wattage. And don’t forget, the M5 is years away from supporting Linux fully. We are just talking about the M3 getting decent support. If you’re the kind of person that wants a thin and light laptop for productivity and also wants to fire up some light games here and there, it’s hard to argue that an M5 MacBook Air is the right system for you. Even with recent strides in game compatibility, macOS is a terrible gaming platform that really can’t hold a candle to Windows or Linux x86, and Panther Lake graphics smokes the M5. Obviously a Mac with macOS is a better choice for things like video editing.
- rowanG077 8mo ago
  TBH my asahi M2 macbook experience has been the best linux experience I have ever had. It's night and day compared to the XPS 13 I had before which was supposedly a well supported laptop for linux, you could even buy it with ubuntu. The only real drawback is no thunderbolt, and till recently no DP, and no x86 support. But I don't use any x86 only apps enough for it to matter. No thunderbolt sucks though.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - dangus 8mo ago
    Having multiple hardware features broken isn’t anything close to my best Linux experience. I’ve got a framework 13 and literally nothing is broken, device firmware updates happen automatically through Linux, literally more integrated with the hardware than a windows laptop.
    - rowanG077 8mo ago
      One hardware feature really. Besides thunderbolt there really isn't anything that doesn't work. I happily give up thunderbolt over the significantly worse performance of the SoC and screen in the framework 13. Especially the screen is terrible. When I purchased my macbook the framework 13 was top of the list of alternatives. But I can't bear a bad screen. Note that I never use macos, I purchased the macbook with the goal of running linux on it. Macbook was simply one of the best supported devices.

Au contraire - which Asahi-supported machines hold a candle to AMD and Intel's Linux support? I can't recommend Macs to other Linux users in good faith unless they're already stuck with the hardware and loathe macOS. If you need an ARM laptop that supports Linux, you should probably wait for Nvidia to release theirs.

CamJN 8mo ago
it's this part: "The top SKU has a similar performance and efficiency profile to the base M5 processor along with faster graphics performance." that is naive, this has been the standard lie told by intel as long as Apple silicon has existed, "Ignore everything we've ever done or promised before, our NEXT gen will be as fast and power efficient as apple! We promise this time!". It has never been true, and honestly I don't think it CAN be true when they have to give over a full third of their transistor budget just to decoding the abomination that is x86_64.
- bigyabai 8mo ago
  It's believable. AMD's x86 APUs were basically neck-and-neck with the M1 in performance, and when you normalize for production processes AMD was actually more efficient under load: https://www.notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-R7-4800U_12937_11681.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/M1-vs-R7-4800U_12937_11681.247... x86 is the minority of the issue compared to securing cutting-edge nodes and optimizing for big.LITTLE. And once you factor in all of the dark ops on Apple Silicon (NPU, anyone?), they've basically butt up against the same wall of wasting transistors on specialized hardware that is obsolete within 3 years of release. Minus the ability to cleanly integrate it with compiler tech for efficiency gains, a-la SSE/AVX.
- dangus 8mo ago
  Proper testing and benchmarks don’t lie. I’m not sure why you think this is an impossible feat. https://youtu.be/Xjkzb-j6nKI https://youtu.be/Xjkzb-j6nKI 12:00 mark, you can see panther lake performs better in Cyberpunk 2077 than the M5 with less power draw. 6:25, Panther Lake is barely behind the M5 chip at Cinebench. Just a slightly lower score at the same wattage. And don’t forget, the M5 is years away from supporting Linux fully. We are just talking about the M3 getting decent support. If you’re the kind of person that wants a thin and light laptop for productivity and also wants to fire up some light games here and there, it’s hard to argue that an M5 MacBook Air is the right system for you. Even with recent strides in game compatibility, macOS is a terrible gaming platform that really can’t hold a candle to Windows or Linux x86, and Panther Lake graphics smokes the M5. Obviously a Mac with macOS is a better choice for things like video editing.
rowanG077 8mo ago
TBH my asahi M2 macbook experience has been the best linux experience I have ever had. It's night and day compared to the XPS 13 I had before which was supposedly a well supported laptop for linux, you could even buy it with ubuntu. The only real drawback is no thunderbolt, and till recently no DP, and no x86 support. But I don't use any x86 only apps enough for it to matter. No thunderbolt sucks though.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- dangus 8mo ago
  Having multiple hardware features broken isn’t anything close to my best Linux experience. I’ve got a framework 13 and literally nothing is broken, device firmware updates happen automatically through Linux, literally more integrated with the hardware than a windows laptop.
  - rowanG077 8mo ago
    One hardware feature really. Besides thunderbolt there really isn't anything that doesn't work. I happily give up thunderbolt over the significantly worse performance of the SoC and screen in the framework 13. Especially the screen is terrible. When I purchased my macbook the framework 13 was top of the list of alternatives. But I can't bear a bad screen. Note that I never use macos, I purchased the macbook with the goal of running linux on it. Macbook was simply one of the best supported devices.