7 ms·

AFAIK, Medicare in the USA is forbidden by law from using its big market to drive a hard bargain like most national health services can (Medicare Prescription D

AFAIK, Medicare in the USA is forbidden by law from using its big market to drive a hard bargain like most national health services can (Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003). So its like employers paying workers less in jurisdictions where they can't unionize and strike.

0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
That actually changed recently, but The Economist (UK newspaper) whines that Americans will no longer be footing the bill for drug development: https://archive.is/bWwP4 https://archive.is/bWwP4 We're done with Europeans treating us as suckers. Doing nice things for Europe leads to nothing but contempt from Europeans.
- hermanzegerman 8mo ago
  They correctly point out that useless parasites like the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that I also mentioned to you, are a quite big part of your drug price problem. Yet you seem to refuse to acknowledge it The system is packed with opaque middlemen such as pharmacy benefit managers, many of which are making big rents
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
    Certainly the US healthcare system needs reform. But I believe a big reason why we have paid such high drug prices for so long is because congresspeople in the US believed that it was good for us to subsidize drug innovation for the entire world. That era is over. Like I said, you Europeans had a good thing going, but you just couldn't let well enough alone.
    - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
      If you really believe that Congressmen in the US thought they were subsidizing foreign nations while their own citizens suffer out of their goodness of their hearts, and not because some Lobbyists donated huge sums to their campaigns and "convinced" them in some meetings, Boy I do have a Bridge to sell you. American Politicians are really famous worldwide for being selfless, defending other nations interests to the detriment of their own nation Especially the Republican ones, which have blocked and still trying to block all efforts to bring drug prices down by negotiation. They are known for being very caring people. Especially for the poor and disadvantaged
      - 0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
        The lobbyists probably said something like "it is good for drug companies to make profits so they can innovate new drugs for global benefit". Same way the defense companies probably said something like "it is good to deter Russia so that Europe can remain free and democratic". Hilarious, isn't it? Anyways shouldn't you get back to work so you can afford all the new weapons you're going to have to buy? "American Politicians are really famous worldwide for being selfless, defending other nations interests to the detriment of their own nation." Well yes, we did that for you guys for 80 years after WW2, a very peaceful and prosperous period for Europe by historical standards. We got nothing but hate and laughter for it. Now we're done.
        deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
        hermanzegerman 8mo ago
        * Well yes, we did that for you guys for 80 years after WW2, a very peaceful and prosperous period for Europe by historical standards. We got nothing but hate and laughter for it We got nothing but hate and laughter for it* You're either very stupid believing that the American Engagement in Europe was just charity or just a very good troll. I guess Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran (pre-Mullahs) and other countries that were gifted with democracy were also other selfless endeavours by the Americans.
        0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
        "You're either very stupid believing that the American Engagement in Europe was just charity or just a very good troll." Europeans always imply that NATO is some sort of vast American conspiracy. But they are hardly ever able to give compelling examples of American benefit. The US benefit from NATO always remains a sort of esoteric wisdom which is mysteriously beyond the grasp of the average American. I suppose if we were more educated on European geography trivia, like you guys, that might help us understand why the US needs NATO so badly. "Vietnam" Yes, that was seen as analogous to another very recent war in Korea. If it wasn't for us, the state known as "North Korea" would cover the entire peninsula. "Iraq" One of the worst dictators in history, that Saddam Hussein. Europeans laughed at us for our opposition to him. It's why we now have little interest in opposing Putin, who is a herbivore by comparison. "Afghanistan" Depending on who you ask, we are either imperialists for displacing the Taliban, or complicit for allowing them to displace us right back. Typical double-bind. "Iran" You mean the country which is at this very moment crying out for American intervention, asking the Americans to protect protesters? It's fascinating to me how certain Europeans can simultaneously beg the US for protection, and also assume that the US must be up to no good in other countries where the US gets begged for protection. Hopefully you can see why I support Massie's bill to withdraw the US from NATO at this point. I'm tired of it all. I want a Swiss foreign policy for the US. Do you also support Massie's bill? Maybe that's something we can agree on.
- pixodaros 8mo ago
  No, that article has one paragraph which frets that if Medicare drives down drug prices in the USA, pharma companies might cut R&D spending, and might get less new drugs (note the conditional and hypothetical). A colleague in biomedical research says that its just a common misconception that R&D costs drive drug prices eg. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2022-071710 https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2022-071710

0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago

That actually changed recently, but The Economist (UK newspaper) whines that Americans will no longer be footing the bill for drug development: https://archive.is/bWwP4 https://archive.is/bWwP4 We're done with Europeans treating us as suckers. Doing nice things for Europe leads to nothing but contempt from Europeans.

hermanzegerman 8mo ago
They correctly point out that useless parasites like the Pharmacy Benefit Managers that I also mentioned to you, are a quite big part of your drug price problem. Yet you seem to refuse to acknowledge it The system is packed with opaque middlemen such as pharmacy benefit managers, many of which are making big rents
- 0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
  Certainly the US healthcare system needs reform. But I believe a big reason why we have paid such high drug prices for so long is because congresspeople in the US believed that it was good for us to subsidize drug innovation for the entire world. That era is over. Like I said, you Europeans had a good thing going, but you just couldn't let well enough alone.
  - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
    If you really believe that Congressmen in the US thought they were subsidizing foreign nations while their own citizens suffer out of their goodness of their hearts, and not because some Lobbyists donated huge sums to their campaigns and "convinced" them in some meetings, Boy I do have a Bridge to sell you. American Politicians are really famous worldwide for being selfless, defending other nations interests to the detriment of their own nation Especially the Republican ones, which have blocked and still trying to block all efforts to bring drug prices down by negotiation. They are known for being very caring people. Especially for the poor and disadvantaged
    - 0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
      The lobbyists probably said something like "it is good for drug companies to make profits so they can innovate new drugs for global benefit". Same way the defense companies probably said something like "it is good to deter Russia so that Europe can remain free and democratic". Hilarious, isn't it? Anyways shouldn't you get back to work so you can afford all the new weapons you're going to have to buy? "American Politicians are really famous worldwide for being selfless, defending other nations interests to the detriment of their own nation." Well yes, we did that for you guys for 80 years after WW2, a very peaceful and prosperous period for Europe by historical standards. We got nothing but hate and laughter for it. Now we're done.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
        * Well yes, we did that for you guys for 80 years after WW2, a very peaceful and prosperous period for Europe by historical standards. We got nothing but hate and laughter for it We got nothing but hate and laughter for it* You're either very stupid believing that the American Engagement in Europe was just charity or just a very good troll. I guess Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran (pre-Mullahs) and other countries that were gifted with democracy were also other selfless endeavours by the Americans.
        0xDEAFBEAD 8mo ago
        "You're either very stupid believing that the American Engagement in Europe was just charity or just a very good troll." Europeans always imply that NATO is some sort of vast American conspiracy. But they are hardly ever able to give compelling examples of American benefit. The US benefit from NATO always remains a sort of esoteric wisdom which is mysteriously beyond the grasp of the average American. I suppose if we were more educated on European geography trivia, like you guys, that might help us understand why the US needs NATO so badly. "Vietnam" Yes, that was seen as analogous to another very recent war in Korea. If it wasn't for us, the state known as "North Korea" would cover the entire peninsula. "Iraq" One of the worst dictators in history, that Saddam Hussein. Europeans laughed at us for our opposition to him. It's why we now have little interest in opposing Putin, who is a herbivore by comparison. "Afghanistan" Depending on who you ask, we are either imperialists for displacing the Taliban, or complicit for allowing them to displace us right back. Typical double-bind. "Iran" You mean the country which is at this very moment crying out for American intervention, asking the Americans to protect protesters? It's fascinating to me how certain Europeans can simultaneously beg the US for protection, and also assume that the US must be up to no good in other countries where the US gets begged for protection. Hopefully you can see why I support Massie's bill to withdraw the US from NATO at this point. I'm tired of it all. I want a Swiss foreign policy for the US. Do you also support Massie's bill? Maybe that's something we can agree on.
pixodaros 8mo ago
No, that article has one paragraph which frets that if Medicare drives down drug prices in the USA, pharma companies might cut R&D spending, and might get less new drugs (note the conditional and hypothetical). A colleague in biomedical research says that its just a common misconception that R&D costs drive drug prices eg. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2022-071710 https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj-2022-071710