7 ms·

Right up until one tries to set up a self-hosted server (spoiler - you can't, at least not without 'significant effort' - they themselves say that if you ask ab

Right up until one tries to set up a self-hosted server (spoiler - you can't, at least not without 'significant effort' - they themselves say that if you ask about it).

einpoklum 8mo ago
Is this intentional crippling / obfuscation, or did they just bother to do the necessary work for the server-side software robust enough to run on different HW & SW setups?
- tingletech 8mo ago
  I think it's the latter
gdevenyi 8mo ago
Or try to build it yourself.
bonsai_spool 8mo ago
I haven't had an issue doing this with a standard WebDAV server and this has been true since 2007 or so.
- ajb 8mo ago
  My understanding is that that works for personal use. If you want to use a group library, not so much. Which can be considered fair, as mostly organisations which should be able to help fund zotero are the ones that need group libraries.
- wycx 8mo ago
  I had a very convenient setup using linked files stored in Dropbox that worked very well for 15 years. The Zotero 6 to 7 upgrade completely broke this, and modified the database so that rollback is not possible. There was no warning that this workflow would be completely broken on upgrade.
  - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
    Last Time I tried to store the Database in a Cloud Synced Folder there were like 100 warnings to click away that exactly this would happen...
  - bonsai_spool 8mo ago
    I think there’s a plugin called Attanger that replicates that workflow
- mxuribe 8mo ago
  Is there any documentation for self-hosting that you can share or point to? Um, maybe my brain is not working today...but it sure is hell is not obvious where the instructions are for setting up a self-hosted instance. :-)
- pseudalopex 8mo ago
  Did you sync all data to multiple computers without a Zotero account? Zotero's documentation said WebDAV could sync attachment files. But everything else required a Zotero account.[1] [1] https://www.zotero.org/support/sync https://www.zotero.org/support/sync
  - hpfr 8mo ago
    Indeed. It seems there are multiple questions in these comments on this subject, so I’ll just copy my reply from the Zotero 7 release here, since I don’t think anything has meaningfully changed since then: WebDAV support is nice to save money, but from a privacy perspective it’s a huge bummer that the sync servers get all your citation metadata. A better self-hosting story¹ is one path to resolving this. End-to-end encryption² similar to e.g. Firefox Sync is another. Zotero has a security overview³ that shows they clearly care about good practices, but it’s still bothersome to have to trust the server when many other applications have proven E2EE works great even for non-technical users⁴. Unfortunately from the main Zotero dev’s responses, it seems clear that they have no incentive to implement either and probably never will (look, the same comment from 2½ [now 4!] years ago⁵) without some shift in circumstances (massive increase in funding, new regulatory requirements). Even if a community member implemented the entirety of either solution, dstillman can just (rightly, tbh) claim it will increase their maintenance burden when they are trying to support paying customers. 1: https://github.com/zotero/dataserver/issues/105#issuecomment-703309777 https://github.com/zotero/dataserver/issues/105#issuecomment... 2: https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/380780/#Comment_380780 https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/380780/#Comment... 3: https://www.zotero.org/support/security https://www.zotero.org/support/security 4: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/advanced-data-protection-for-icloud-sec973254c5f/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/advanced-data-prote... 5: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29774935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29774935

Right up until one tries to set up a self-hosted server (spoiler - you can't, at least not without 'significant effort' - they themselves say that if you ask about it).

einpoklum 8mo ago

Is this intentional crippling / obfuscation, or did they just bother to do the necessary work for the server-side software robust enough to run on different HW & SW setups?

tingletech 8mo ago
I think it's the latter

gdevenyi 8mo ago

Or try to build it yourself.

bonsai_spool 8mo ago

I haven't had an issue doing this with a standard WebDAV server and this has been true since 2007 or so.

ajb 8mo ago
My understanding is that that works for personal use. If you want to use a group library, not so much. Which can be considered fair, as mostly organisations which should be able to help fund zotero are the ones that need group libraries.
wycx 8mo ago
I had a very convenient setup using linked files stored in Dropbox that worked very well for 15 years. The Zotero 6 to 7 upgrade completely broke this, and modified the database so that rollback is not possible. There was no warning that this workflow would be completely broken on upgrade.
- hermanzegerman 8mo ago
  Last Time I tried to store the Database in a Cloud Synced Folder there were like 100 warnings to click away that exactly this would happen...
- bonsai_spool 8mo ago
  I think there’s a plugin called Attanger that replicates that workflow
mxuribe 8mo ago
Is there any documentation for self-hosting that you can share or point to? Um, maybe my brain is not working today...but it sure is hell is not obvious where the instructions are for setting up a self-hosted instance. :-)
pseudalopex 8mo ago
Did you sync all data to multiple computers without a Zotero account? Zotero's documentation said WebDAV could sync attachment files. But everything else required a Zotero account.[1] [1] https://www.zotero.org/support/sync https://www.zotero.org/support/sync
- hpfr 8mo ago
  Indeed. It seems there are multiple questions in these comments on this subject, so I’ll just copy my reply from the Zotero 7 release here, since I don’t think anything has meaningfully changed since then: WebDAV support is nice to save money, but from a privacy perspective it’s a huge bummer that the sync servers get all your citation metadata. A better self-hosting story¹ is one path to resolving this. End-to-end encryption² similar to e.g. Firefox Sync is another. Zotero has a security overview³ that shows they clearly care about good practices, but it’s still bothersome to have to trust the server when many other applications have proven E2EE works great even for non-technical users⁴. Unfortunately from the main Zotero dev’s responses, it seems clear that they have no incentive to implement either and probably never will (look, the same comment from 2½ [now 4!] years ago⁵) without some shift in circumstances (massive increase in funding, new regulatory requirements). Even if a community member implemented the entirety of either solution, dstillman can just (rightly, tbh) claim it will increase their maintenance burden when they are trying to support paying customers. 1: https://github.com/zotero/dataserver/issues/105#issuecomment-703309777 https://github.com/zotero/dataserver/issues/105#issuecomment... 2: https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/380780/#Comment_380780 https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/380780/#Comment... 3: https://www.zotero.org/support/security https://www.zotero.org/support/security 4: https://support.apple.com/guide/security/advanced-data-protection-for-icloud-sec973254c5f/web https://support.apple.com/guide/security/advanced-data-prote... 5: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29774935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29774935