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I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

by chc4 8mo ago

littlecranky67 8mo ago
This. We must change laws that the above field is not considered as given consent. And while we are at it, we must change "silence is agreement" to "silence is disagreement". This applies to change of ToS, price increases etc. That means if I don't click a link with a button "I agree", the ToS change is not accepted - that means they have to cancel/delete my account.
- bayindirh 8mo ago
  Didn't FCC remove "1-click unsubscribe" requirement since it can "provide more choice and lower prices to all users across the board" (since the companies can rip off more users and create pseudo-lower prices)? EU has its GPDR and it has some teeth, but US is currently hopeless on that front, for now, from my vantage point. I'd love to be stand corrected though.
  - SpicyLemonZest 8mo ago
    The FTC established a "click-to-cancel" rule, but (as with just so many regulations in the US) it was blocked by an appeals court. Federal law says there's a hoop they have to jump through for rules with an impact of more than $100 million, and they didn't jump through the hoop because they didn't think the impact was that high.
- lelanthran 8mo ago
  > And while we are at it, we must change "silence is agreement" to "silence is disagreement". Maybe we should reframe their "silence is agreement" message as "silence is consent".
  - pluralmonad 8mo ago
    So creepy and weird this comment has downvotes. These people/companies absolutely do not value nor care about consent.
- 7bit 8mo ago
  Just move to Germany, we have all you asked for.
  - littlecranky67 8mo ago
    No we don't. Banks yes, but outside of banking no one respects this.
usefulposter 8mo ago
Hey, that sounds like Signal! https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 >We're not going to remove the reminders. >If you don't want to provide that access, you still don't need to – you can simply tap remind me later once a month (See also: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373, https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809, ...)
- stackghost 8mo ago
  Signal is an interesting case study in UX failure. I and a bunch of other tech forward people were on it in its heyday but after they removed SMS support and implemented shitty UX like that nag dialog: Neither I nor a single person I know uses it any more. Everyone is on Whatsapp or iMessage. It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it?
  - TheChaplain 8mo ago
    > It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it? I've made a few attempts to convert people, but no-go. People stay on Telegram and WhatsApp because they have better UX and features. Signal refuses to see the value in good attractive UX.
  - ale42 8mo ago
    Cryptographical superiority aside, Signal doesn't collect personal data, unlike Whatsapp. For me that's the main reason to use it. The UX is good enough, although some points can for sure be improved.
    - alex1138 8mo ago
      Whatsapp should be a non starter. What Mark Zuckerberg did to Whatsapp should be required reading for anyone using the internet, and then decide if you still want to use Facebook (never mind, they build a shadow profile for you anyway) "It's time. Delete Facebook" isn't subtle https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive-whatsapp-cofounder-brian-acton-gives-the-inside-story-on-deletefacebook-and-why-he-left-850-million-behind/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...
zombot 8mo ago
They ran out of letter "o" supply, so they can't spell "no".
amatecha 8mo ago
I like to frame it like this: "ask me later" is rape culture. It promotes and reinforces a culture of never taking "no" for an answer, and pushing one's agenda/intent regardless of the preference/consent of the other party/parties.
- margalabargala 8mo ago
  > "ask me later" is rape culture I see the point you're making but this sort of hyperbole has a tendency to turn people away from whatever point you're trying to make unless they already agree with you.
- B1FIDO 8mo ago
  I was visiting a girlfriend once, and she was in the process of moving in the same city. There was a telephone bill on top of her dresser, and I noticed that she had noted "butt-rape fee" next to one of the line items there. Now she is a very literate woman and loves poetry and "Penny Dreadfuls", so she uses language and words very deliberately. And so, I asked her why she wrote that, and she said it was some sort of unnecessary fee that they were charging to move her line from one address to another, and she clearly resented their opportunistic capitalism. I certainly sympathized with her, especially since she is the type of woman who has probably been subjected to that sort of actual trauma in her own life, and that of her friends, she had every right to compare the experiences.
xigoi 8mo ago
I made something in a similar spirit: https://i.postimg.cc/HnHV5xZK/microsoft-consent.png https://i.postimg.cc/HnHV5xZK/microsoft-consent.png

I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

by chc4 8mo ago

I saw a Mastodon tweet a while ago, which went something like: Do tech companies understand consent?: - [ ] Yes - [ ] Ask me again in a few days

littlecranky67 8mo ago

This. We must change laws that the above field is not considered as given consent. And while we are at it, we must change "silence is agreement" to "silence is disagreement". This applies to change of ToS, price increases etc. That means if I don't click a link with a button "I agree", the ToS change is not accepted - that means they have to cancel/delete my account.

bayindirh 8mo ago
Didn't FCC remove "1-click unsubscribe" requirement since it can "provide more choice and lower prices to all users across the board" (since the companies can rip off more users and create pseudo-lower prices)? EU has its GPDR and it has some teeth, but US is currently hopeless on that front, for now, from my vantage point. I'd love to be stand corrected though.
- SpicyLemonZest 8mo ago
  The FTC established a "click-to-cancel" rule, but (as with just so many regulations in the US) it was blocked by an appeals court. Federal law says there's a hoop they have to jump through for rules with an impact of more than $100 million, and they didn't jump through the hoop because they didn't think the impact was that high.
lelanthran 8mo ago
> And while we are at it, we must change "silence is agreement" to "silence is disagreement". Maybe we should reframe their "silence is agreement" message as "silence is consent".
- pluralmonad 8mo ago
  So creepy and weird this comment has downvotes. These people/companies absolutely do not value nor care about consent.
7bit 8mo ago
Just move to Germany, we have all you asked for.
- littlecranky67 8mo ago
  No we don't. Banks yes, but outside of banking no one respects this.

usefulposter 8mo ago

Hey, that sounds like Signal! https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4590 >We're not going to remove the reminders. >If you don't want to provide that access, you still don't need to – you can simply tap remind me later once a month (See also: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/4373, https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/5809, ...)

stackghost 8mo ago
Signal is an interesting case study in UX failure. I and a bunch of other tech forward people were on it in its heyday but after they removed SMS support and implemented shitty UX like that nag dialog: Neither I nor a single person I know uses it any more. Everyone is on Whatsapp or iMessage. It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it?
- TheChaplain 8mo ago
  > It may be cryptographically superior, but does that matter at the end of the day if nobody uses it? I've made a few attempts to convert people, but no-go. People stay on Telegram and WhatsApp because they have better UX and features. Signal refuses to see the value in good attractive UX.
- ale42 8mo ago
  Cryptographical superiority aside, Signal doesn't collect personal data, unlike Whatsapp. For me that's the main reason to use it. The UX is good enough, although some points can for sure be improved.
  - alex1138 8mo ago
    Whatsapp should be a non starter. What Mark Zuckerberg did to Whatsapp should be required reading for anyone using the internet, and then decide if you still want to use Facebook (never mind, they build a shadow profile for you anyway) "It's time. Delete Facebook" isn't subtle https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive-whatsapp-cofounder-brian-acton-gives-the-inside-story-on-deletefacebook-and-why-he-left-850-million-behind/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...

zombot 8mo ago

They ran out of letter "o" supply, so they can't spell "no".

amatecha 8mo ago

I like to frame it like this: "ask me later" is rape culture. It promotes and reinforces a culture of never taking "no" for an answer, and pushing one's agenda/intent regardless of the preference/consent of the other party/parties.

margalabargala 8mo ago
> "ask me later" is rape culture I see the point you're making but this sort of hyperbole has a tendency to turn people away from whatever point you're trying to make unless they already agree with you.
B1FIDO 8mo ago
I was visiting a girlfriend once, and she was in the process of moving in the same city. There was a telephone bill on top of her dresser, and I noticed that she had noted "butt-rape fee" next to one of the line items there. Now she is a very literate woman and loves poetry and "Penny Dreadfuls", so she uses language and words very deliberately. And so, I asked her why she wrote that, and she said it was some sort of unnecessary fee that they were charging to move her line from one address to another, and she clearly resented their opportunistic capitalism. I certainly sympathized with her, especially since she is the type of woman who has probably been subjected to that sort of actual trauma in her own life, and that of her friends, she had every right to compare the experiences.

xigoi 8mo ago

I made something in a similar spirit: https://i.postimg.cc/HnHV5xZK/microsoft-consent.png https://i.postimg.cc/HnHV5xZK/microsoft-consent.png