6 ms·

While "The Liberator" (one of the first 3d printed guns) was interesting as a test of the technology and what it means for the law, I don't know if I'd trust us

by nick238 8mo ago

While "The Liberator" (one of the first 3d printed guns) was interesting as a test of the technology and what it means for the law, I don't know if I'd trust using one to not blow up in my hands. Pretty sure you could assemble a zip gun in a Home Depot (they even sell cartridges for powder-actuated tools) that's less dangerous for you, more dangerous downrange. It is a total mystery how the Washington bill's cited "blocking technology" is supposed to work. If you load a pipe-shaped object into your CAM software, how the hell is it supposed to know if it's an illegal firearm part or just a manifold? Maybe before each time it generates some G-code, you need to submit a signed affidavit to the government, and they'll conduct an investigation. Three months later you can print your fidget spinner.

wmf 8mo ago
I think the designs have advanced a lot since the first but what hasn't changed is that printed guns are mostly for hobbyists while criminals mostly use normal guns.
Jamesbeam 8mo ago
Currently, building a ghost gun is merely a matter of loading the right files into the appropriate software, purchasing the necessary materials, and beginning the printing process. The assembly instructions are as straightforward as building a Lego set. Do we really want that? Every day, people are actually murdered with these guns. While they may not be more dangerous than a 1911 made in the jungles of the Philippines, acquiring a traditional firearm requires engaging with real people, which gives law enforcement a better chance to intercept someone before they can commit acts of violence with an illegal firearm. What this bill does is not make it impossible to build a firearm with the available technology, instead, it raises the entry point beyond what the average American can navigate. Let's be honest. Many of the individuals printing guns aren't doing it out of curiosity but to use them criminally. These individuals typically have a 30-second TikTok attention span, minimal resilience to failure, and little to no physical skills. Most of them have likely already been incarcerated and are therefore prohibited from legally purchasing firearms. By creating a database of unique hashes for the publicly accessible printing files, we would deny about 95% of those individuals access to easily obtainable illegal firearms. This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. This approach enhances safety for everyone, as guns, legal or not, shouldn't be in the hands of irresponsible individuals. Regardless of your views on firearm possession, I believe we can all agree on that point. If you possess the skills to modify those files to make them printable, you must be smart enough to recognize that printing a gun, unless it’s purely as a project to build and then destroy for the sake of personal achievement, is inherently a foolish idea. Additionally, the Liberator design had a singular purpose, it was inspired by French resistance fighters who needed just one bullet to take out Nazis and then acquire their well-functioning, fully loaded submachine guns. This allowed them to kill more Nazis and obtain more weapons for their resistance efforts. The U.S. is not currently under Nazi occupation, and law enforcement already faces significant challenges. They shouldn't have to worry about every individual they encounter potentially possessing an untraceable firearm, which may even resist fingerprint identification. Society owes it to those risking their lives daily to keep the community safe. A world in which anyone can press a button and create their own unregulated, untraceable firearm is not safe for any of us.
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- JodieBenitez 8mo ago
  > This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. That's putting a lot of trust in authorities.
  - Jamesbeam 8mo ago
    Not really, we use a similar system for court ordered DNS blocks. So to get on that DNS blocklist they need probable cause and a federal judge reviewing the request. The public is keeping an eye on what domains are blocked also. Example: https://cuiiliste.de/domains https://cuiiliste.de/domains So if your 3D printer is no longer printing anything that is not illegal to print, you can always contact a journalist or tell the public on whatever channel you choose to that they are blocking a file/object that is not prohibited and provide video evidence. That doesn’t guarantee the file gets unblocked, but if they want the system to be publicly accepted, both sides have to play by the rules, and with transparency comes trust in institutions. Same if they abuse the system to get notified whenever you print something that is not illegal. They do it once, and then that whole project is toast.
    - JodieBenitez 8mo ago
      > They do it once, and then that whole project is toast. You wish ! It's funny that you mention DNS blocks because these have already been abused in my country. Nobody cares. I don't want that much state control on my life, they have too much already. Your proposal is straight up Orwelian stuff to me.
      - Jamesbeam 8mo ago

by nick238 8mo ago

wmf 8mo ago

I think the designs have advanced a lot since the first but what hasn't changed is that printed guns are mostly for hobbyists while criminals mostly use normal guns.

Jamesbeam 8mo ago

Currently, building a ghost gun is merely a matter of loading the right files into the appropriate software, purchasing the necessary materials, and beginning the printing process. The assembly instructions are as straightforward as building a Lego set. Do we really want that? Every day, people are actually murdered with these guns. While they may not be more dangerous than a 1911 made in the jungles of the Philippines, acquiring a traditional firearm requires engaging with real people, which gives law enforcement a better chance to intercept someone before they can commit acts of violence with an illegal firearm. What this bill does is not make it impossible to build a firearm with the available technology, instead, it raises the entry point beyond what the average American can navigate. Let's be honest. Many of the individuals printing guns aren't doing it out of curiosity but to use them criminally. These individuals typically have a 30-second TikTok attention span, minimal resilience to failure, and little to no physical skills. Most of them have likely already been incarcerated and are therefore prohibited from legally purchasing firearms. By creating a database of unique hashes for the publicly accessible printing files, we would deny about 95% of those individuals access to easily obtainable illegal firearms. This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. This approach enhances safety for everyone, as guns, legal or not, shouldn't be in the hands of irresponsible individuals. Regardless of your views on firearm possession, I believe we can all agree on that point. If you possess the skills to modify those files to make them printable, you must be smart enough to recognize that printing a gun, unless it’s purely as a project to build and then destroy for the sake of personal achievement, is inherently a foolish idea. Additionally, the Liberator design had a singular purpose, it was inspired by French resistance fighters who needed just one bullet to take out Nazis and then acquire their well-functioning, fully loaded submachine guns. This allowed them to kill more Nazis and obtain more weapons for their resistance efforts. The U.S. is not currently under Nazi occupation, and law enforcement already faces significant challenges. They shouldn't have to worry about every individual they encounter potentially possessing an untraceable firearm, which may even resist fingerprint identification. Society owes it to those risking their lives daily to keep the community safe. A world in which anyone can press a button and create their own unregulated, untraceable firearm is not safe for any of us.

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JodieBenitez 8mo ago
> This list can be updated by authorities whenever someone modifies a public file needed to print a firearm, and with online access, similar to many normal printers, it could even alert law enforcement when someone tries to print these files. That's putting a lot of trust in authorities.
- Jamesbeam 8mo ago
  Not really, we use a similar system for court ordered DNS blocks. So to get on that DNS blocklist they need probable cause and a federal judge reviewing the request. The public is keeping an eye on what domains are blocked also. Example: https://cuiiliste.de/domains https://cuiiliste.de/domains So if your 3D printer is no longer printing anything that is not illegal to print, you can always contact a journalist or tell the public on whatever channel you choose to that they are blocking a file/object that is not prohibited and provide video evidence. That doesn’t guarantee the file gets unblocked, but if they want the system to be publicly accepted, both sides have to play by the rules, and with transparency comes trust in institutions. Same if they abuse the system to get notified whenever you print something that is not illegal. They do it once, and then that whole project is toast.
  - JodieBenitez 8mo ago
    > They do it once, and then that whole project is toast. You wish ! It's funny that you mention DNS blocks because these have already been abused in my country. Nobody cares. I don't want that much state control on my life, they have too much already. Your proposal is straight up Orwelian stuff to me.
    - Jamesbeam 8mo ago