5 ms·

> And it may sound paranoid but remember that China was caught operating their own "police" force around the world not long ago Have you heard about ICE? That

by knuppar 8mo ago

> And it may sound paranoid but remember that China was caught operating their own "police" force around the world not long ago Have you heard about ICE? That one's not a paranoid thought. It's a very real personal police designed for oppression. I'd much much rather chineses EVs flooding the market over Teslas.

adamiscool8 8mo ago
Did ICE have clandestine police stations in Canada trying to rendition political dissidents? People need to get a grip and some perspective.
- knuppar 8mo ago
  American citizens being shot and brutalized by a state sponsored force of masked thugs without training. Sounds pretty clandestine to me and it's happening in us soil.
  - adamiscool8 8mo ago
    Except those actions are not secret, nor illegal, nor a threat to any other country’s sovereignty?
    - knuppar 8mo ago
      If you think those actions are not illegal I'm stopping to reply, this is clearly just ragebait.
      - adamiscool8 8mo ago
        Ragebait would be trying to argue that China running secret police and propaganda operations on Canadian soil, against Canadian citizens, is in any way equivalent to a domestic force taking actions primarily against foreign nationals, in a statutorily authorized way within a legal framework that can be challenged.
      - ndjeosibfb 8mo ago
        TIL enforcing laws is actually illegal
        HDThoreaun 8mo ago
        There are many cases of law enforcement being imprisoned for shooting people while on duty. It is well established that enforcing laws does not give you carte blanche to shoot people
    - LunaSea 8mo ago
      Their actions are very illegal (extradition if American citizens, stealing property, entering without a warrant, murders, etc.). And the US's stance and actions around Venezuela and Greenland are also both illegal and a threat to a country's sovereignty. Tariff threats is another example.
palmotea 8mo ago
> Have you heard about ICE? That one's not a paranoid thought. It's a very real personal police designed for oppression. Oh, come on. ICE may be behaving badly right now, and you might be mad at them, but that's not an excuse for flights of fancy. Stay grounded in the truth. ICE is not "personal police designed for oppression," they're police designed to enforce immigration and customs laws (ICE literally stands for "immigration and customs enforcement"). Canada and every other country has some kind of police force that serves those roles: for instance: https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/rem-ren-eng.html https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/rem-ren-eng.ht...: > The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) removals program contributes to upholding the integrity of Canada’s immigration system by removing people who are inadmissible to enter or stay in Canada. > ... The CBSA also prioritizes the removal of failed refugee claimants who entered Canada irregularly between points of entry. These cases are prioritized due to their significant impact on program integrity and on Canada’s asylum system. I'm under the impression that Canada has historically actually been much more strict with enforcing immigration laws and deporting people than the US had been.
- dh2022 8mo ago
  I got news for you: ICE is designed now to beat up anyone in the US. Here is one example: https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-blinds-fractures-skull-anti-ice-protester https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-bl...
  - palmotea 8mo ago
    > I got news for you: ICE is designed now to beat up anyone in the US. Here is one example: https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-blinds-fractures-skull-anti-ice-protester https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-bl... Do you know what the word "designed" means? Because I don't think it means what you think it means. I am in no way saying what that ICE agent did was right. I'm just saying being mad is not an excuse for being a sloppy thinker. What's happening here is the ICE agents' behavior is out of control and they're probably behaving illegally. That's not being anyone's "personal police" (whatever that means) or they are "designed to beat up anyone in the US," but believing such false things will probably lead to stupid slogans that end up doing more harm than good (e.g. "defund the police").
mrexroad 8mo ago
These two concerns do not need to be mutually exclusive. Either one can be recognized as a threat to our liberties without diminishing the severity of the other. The more relevant discussion is the lack of policy/legislation to prohibit government agencies from sidestepping the 4th amendment and purchasing access from private corps, like Flock, to surveil individuals without a warrant. It’s ICE today, maybe DEA tomorrow, and the FDA in some broken future. In a decade or two, when nearly all vehicles are inherently advanced optical sensors with wheels, what stops auto manufactures becoming real-time surveillance companies, like Flock?

by knuppar 8mo ago

adamiscool8 8mo ago

Did ICE have clandestine police stations in Canada trying to rendition political dissidents? People need to get a grip and some perspective.

knuppar 8mo ago
American citizens being shot and brutalized by a state sponsored force of masked thugs without training. Sounds pretty clandestine to me and it's happening in us soil.
- adamiscool8 8mo ago
  Except those actions are not secret, nor illegal, nor a threat to any other country’s sovereignty?
  - knuppar 8mo ago
    If you think those actions are not illegal I'm stopping to reply, this is clearly just ragebait.
    - adamiscool8 8mo ago
      Ragebait would be trying to argue that China running secret police and propaganda operations on Canadian soil, against Canadian citizens, is in any way equivalent to a domestic force taking actions primarily against foreign nationals, in a statutorily authorized way within a legal framework that can be challenged.
    - ndjeosibfb 8mo ago
      TIL enforcing laws is actually illegal
      - HDThoreaun 8mo ago
        There are many cases of law enforcement being imprisoned for shooting people while on duty. It is well established that enforcing laws does not give you carte blanche to shoot people
  - LunaSea 8mo ago
    Their actions are very illegal (extradition if American citizens, stealing property, entering without a warrant, murders, etc.). And the US's stance and actions around Venezuela and Greenland are also both illegal and a threat to a country's sovereignty. Tariff threats is another example.

palmotea 8mo ago

> Have you heard about ICE? That one's not a paranoid thought. It's a very real personal police designed for oppression. Oh, come on. ICE may be behaving badly right now, and you might be mad at them, but that's not an excuse for flights of fancy. Stay grounded in the truth. ICE is not "personal police designed for oppression," they're police designed to enforce immigration and customs laws (ICE literally stands for "immigration and customs enforcement"). Canada and every other country has some kind of police force that serves those roles: for instance: https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/rem-ren-eng.html https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/rem-ren-eng.ht...: > The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) removals program contributes to upholding the integrity of Canada’s immigration system by removing people who are inadmissible to enter or stay in Canada. > ... The CBSA also prioritizes the removal of failed refugee claimants who entered Canada irregularly between points of entry. These cases are prioritized due to their significant impact on program integrity and on Canada’s asylum system. I'm under the impression that Canada has historically actually been much more strict with enforcing immigration laws and deporting people than the US had been.

dh2022 8mo ago
I got news for you: ICE is designed now to beat up anyone in the US. Here is one example: https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-blinds-fractures-skull-anti-ice-protester https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-bl...
- palmotea 8mo ago
  > I got news for you: ICE is designed now to beat up anyone in the US. Here is one example: https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-blinds-fractures-skull-anti-ice-protester https://newrepublic.com/post/205280/fed-agent-permanently-bl... Do you know what the word "designed" means? Because I don't think it means what you think it means. I am in no way saying what that ICE agent did was right. I'm just saying being mad is not an excuse for being a sloppy thinker. What's happening here is the ICE agents' behavior is out of control and they're probably behaving illegally. That's not being anyone's "personal police" (whatever that means) or they are "designed to beat up anyone in the US," but believing such false things will probably lead to stupid slogans that end up doing more harm than good (e.g. "defund the police").

mrexroad 8mo ago

These two concerns do not need to be mutually exclusive. Either one can be recognized as a threat to our liberties without diminishing the severity of the other. The more relevant discussion is the lack of policy/legislation to prohibit government agencies from sidestepping the 4th amendment and purchasing access from private corps, like Flock, to surveil individuals without a warrant. It’s ICE today, maybe DEA tomorrow, and the FDA in some broken future. In a decade or two, when nearly all vehicles are inherently advanced optical sensors with wheels, what stops auto manufactures becoming real-time surveillance companies, like Flock?