8 ms·

I for one would find it far more acceptable if the people carrying out the deportations would be a little less "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listeni

by castis 8mo ago

I for one would find it far more acceptable if the people carrying out the deportations would be a little less "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" about it.

cheese4242 8mo ago
The person you are referring to rammed an ICE agent with their vehicle and the agent suffered internal bleeding as a result. Sorry but there is no scenario where you can strike law enforcement with your car after being repeatedly ordered to exit your vehicle where their wouldn't be a justifiable use of lethal force. Trying to frame it as "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" is extremely disingenuous.
- kevinsundar 8mo ago
  So the “ICE agent” presented identification to her showing he was law enforcement? Nope. Oh so he got out of a vehicle marked as ICE? Nope. Do you want to live in a country where an unidentified masked individual with a gun can say “im a fed”, stop a car and force someone out without proper ID? That’s what you’re in support of. I’d say one would have a right to self defense. Also internal bleeding was literally just a bruise, like the internal bleeding I get from walking into the corner of my coffee table.
  - cheese4242 8mo ago
    This is such a bizarre argument because the entire reason the two women were there in the first place is because they thought they were following ICE agents. Both women were part of "ICE Watch", an anti-ICE activist group. They had been following the agents around throughout the day, attempting to disrupt them, which is why the car was parked perpendicular in the street (to block the ICE vehicles) prior to the incident. So to claim the women didn't know it was Federal law enforcement ordering them to exit the vehicle is baffling to me because that was the entire reason the women were there in the first place.
    - nozzlegear 8mo ago
      > Both women were part of "ICE Watch", an anti-ICE activist group Based. > which is why the car was parked perpendicular in the street (to block the ICE vehicles) prior to the incident. That giant ass street that could fit three of her car across its entire width? The one where she was signaling them to go around her? It doesn't sound like she was very effective at disrupting ICE. But even if she was the most effective giant-road-blocking ICE inconveniencer Minneapolis has ever seen, she still should not have been murdered by ICE. It's morally indefensible, there's no world wherein she deserved to be shot unless she had a gun and was shooting first.
    - Forgeties79 8mo ago
      While I agree she knew who they were and disagree with the other person’s implication that she could have not known, in the US we are entirely within our rights to monitor law enforcement, despite attempts to end it (see what recently happened in Louisiana with bans on filming police within 25ft). So what you see as a provocation or “looking for trouble,” I see as exercising her rights and doing her civic duty. I imagine your opinion would change if you agreed with what she was doing a la “ one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.” The sad reality is these people need to be monitored. If they think nobody is watching then they will behave worse than they already are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_Cave
- datsci_est_2015 8mo ago
  Regardless of the exact circumstances of that scenario, there has been no efforts towards even the most token forms of accountability, and your echoing of state propaganda only furthers their success. You are on the wrong side of history with this one. An armed state police force that exists above accountability (except to the executive) is by definition a Geheimestaatspolizei.
- nozzlegear 8mo ago
  > Trying to frame it as "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" is extremely disingenuous. Describing what she did as "ramming" an ICE agent is extremely disingenuous. She tapped him, probably on accident[†]. He got a bruise, and she got shot in the face. [†] We'll never know because she's dead.
- hairofadog 8mo ago
  The "interal bleeding" thing is so unbelievably ludicrous. He got a bruise because he was lurching for the car while juggling his phone in one hand and a gun in the other. She was clearly neither trying to, nor succeeding in "ramming" him.
variadix 8mo ago
“Not listening” is really an incredible framing for trying to flee being detained for obstruction, and in the process hitting and nearly running over a federal agent in your SUV.
- cheese4242 8mo ago
  Agreed. I'm continually shocked at the level of gaslighting still occurring around this event when we have clear footage from multiple angles.
  - Forgeties79 8mo ago
    Disagreement =/= gaslighting
- castis 8mo ago
  I forget that the punishment for obstruction is on-the-spot public execution by a trained officer.
  - variadix 8mo ago
    Where did I say that? It’s ultimately up to a jury to decide whether lethal force was justified. Obstruct and provoke law enforcement at your own peril.
    - Forgeties79 8mo ago
      It’s ultimately up to a jury to decide whether she was trying to flee being detained for obstruction and was in the process hitting and nearly running over a federal agent in her SUV. Not that it will do her any good.

by castis 8mo ago

I for one would find it far more acceptable if the people carrying out the deportations would be a little less "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" about it.

cheese4242 8mo ago

The person you are referring to rammed an ICE agent with their vehicle and the agent suffered internal bleeding as a result. Sorry but there is no scenario where you can strike law enforcement with your car after being repeatedly ordered to exit your vehicle where their wouldn't be a justifiable use of lethal force. Trying to frame it as "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" is extremely disingenuous.

kevinsundar 8mo ago
So the “ICE agent” presented identification to her showing he was law enforcement? Nope. Oh so he got out of a vehicle marked as ICE? Nope. Do you want to live in a country where an unidentified masked individual with a gun can say “im a fed”, stop a car and force someone out without proper ID? That’s what you’re in support of. I’d say one would have a right to self defense. Also internal bleeding was literally just a bruise, like the internal bleeding I get from walking into the corner of my coffee table.
- cheese4242 8mo ago
  This is such a bizarre argument because the entire reason the two women were there in the first place is because they thought they were following ICE agents. Both women were part of "ICE Watch", an anti-ICE activist group. They had been following the agents around throughout the day, attempting to disrupt them, which is why the car was parked perpendicular in the street (to block the ICE vehicles) prior to the incident. So to claim the women didn't know it was Federal law enforcement ordering them to exit the vehicle is baffling to me because that was the entire reason the women were there in the first place.
  - nozzlegear 8mo ago
    > Both women were part of "ICE Watch", an anti-ICE activist group Based. > which is why the car was parked perpendicular in the street (to block the ICE vehicles) prior to the incident. That giant ass street that could fit three of her car across its entire width? The one where she was signaling them to go around her? It doesn't sound like she was very effective at disrupting ICE. But even if she was the most effective giant-road-blocking ICE inconveniencer Minneapolis has ever seen, she still should not have been murdered by ICE. It's morally indefensible, there's no world wherein she deserved to be shot unless she had a gun and was shooting first.
  - Forgeties79 8mo ago
    While I agree she knew who they were and disagree with the other person’s implication that she could have not known, in the US we are entirely within our rights to monitor law enforcement, despite attempts to end it (see what recently happened in Louisiana with bans on filming police within 25ft). So what you see as a provocation or “looking for trouble,” I see as exercising her rights and doing her civic duty. I imagine your opinion would change if you agreed with what she was doing a la “ one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.” The sad reality is these people need to be monitored. If they think nobody is watching then they will behave worse than they already are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_Cave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_Cave
datsci_est_2015 8mo ago
Regardless of the exact circumstances of that scenario, there has been no efforts towards even the most token forms of accountability, and your echoing of state propaganda only furthers their success. You are on the wrong side of history with this one. An armed state police force that exists above accountability (except to the executive) is by definition a Geheimestaatspolizei.
nozzlegear 8mo ago
> Trying to frame it as "shoot U.S. civilians in the face for not listening" is extremely disingenuous. Describing what she did as "ramming" an ICE agent is extremely disingenuous. She tapped him, probably on accident[†]. He got a bruise, and she got shot in the face. [†] We'll never know because she's dead.
hairofadog 8mo ago
The "interal bleeding" thing is so unbelievably ludicrous. He got a bruise because he was lurching for the car while juggling his phone in one hand and a gun in the other. She was clearly neither trying to, nor succeeding in "ramming" him.

variadix 8mo ago

“Not listening” is really an incredible framing for trying to flee being detained for obstruction, and in the process hitting and nearly running over a federal agent in your SUV.

cheese4242 8mo ago
Agreed. I'm continually shocked at the level of gaslighting still occurring around this event when we have clear footage from multiple angles.
- Forgeties79 8mo ago
  Disagreement =/= gaslighting
castis 8mo ago
I forget that the punishment for obstruction is on-the-spot public execution by a trained officer.
- variadix 8mo ago
  Where did I say that? It’s ultimately up to a jury to decide whether lethal force was justified. Obstruct and provoke law enforcement at your own peril.
  - Forgeties79 8mo ago
    It’s ultimately up to a jury to decide whether she was trying to flee being detained for obstruction and was in the process hitting and nearly running over a federal agent in her SUV. Not that it will do her any good.