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renewables will win the long game. batteries are becoming dirt cheap, decentral production wins amidst clusterfucking climate catastrophes. solar and wind alre

by funkify 8mo ago

renewables will win the long game. batteries are becoming dirt cheap, decentral production wins amidst clusterfucking climate catastrophes. solar and wind already are cheaper than anything else. the markets will adjust, simple as that. any push to prolong the transition simply benefits fossil stakeholders.

panick21_ 8mo ago
Batteries are not actually becoming dirt cheap. And if you do the math of how much you need, even if batteries get cheaper by 50% (and that is unlikely just based on materials cost) its nowhere near enough. > decentral production wins amidst clusterfucking climate catastrophes If you do the math you will see Germany could have actually saved money if they had build nuclear in the 2000s. > solar and wind already are cheaper than anything else Only if you look at levelized dispatch cost, not if you actually look at is as a system for sustainable reliable power for a whole industrial country.
- gregbot 8mo ago
  >even if batteries get cheaper by 50% (and that is unlikely just based on materials cost) its nowhere near enough. Could you share this math?
  - panick21_ 8mo ago
    Look up how long a dunkelflut is and do the math yourself. There is a reason that Germany and Europe is planning to do very long distance transport of solar energy. Only by having diverse weather pattern across Europe can you possible do it. Of course this is also incredibly expensive. Even if you assume a very low price from batteries like Form Energy, its still insanely expensive.
codingbot3000 8mo ago
I guess you're right. It's a pity that Elon Musk was incapable of aligning with the German Green movement. So many good things (e.g. large batteries on the German grid to buffer wind and sun) could have come out of that. The Green party actually helped create the right circumstances to build the German Tesla factory quite fast. He was not exactly grateful later on, supporting their political opponents :-D But I guess their extreme wokeism did not help either.

by funkify 8mo ago

panick21_ 8mo ago

Batteries are not actually becoming dirt cheap. And if you do the math of how much you need, even if batteries get cheaper by 50% (and that is unlikely just based on materials cost) its nowhere near enough. > decentral production wins amidst clusterfucking climate catastrophes If you do the math you will see Germany could have actually saved money if they had build nuclear in the 2000s. > solar and wind already are cheaper than anything else Only if you look at levelized dispatch cost, not if you actually look at is as a system for sustainable reliable power for a whole industrial country.

gregbot 8mo ago
>even if batteries get cheaper by 50% (and that is unlikely just based on materials cost) its nowhere near enough. Could you share this math?
- panick21_ 8mo ago
  Look up how long a dunkelflut is and do the math yourself. There is a reason that Germany and Europe is planning to do very long distance transport of solar energy. Only by having diverse weather pattern across Europe can you possible do it. Of course this is also incredibly expensive. Even if you assume a very low price from batteries like Form Energy, its still insanely expensive.

codingbot3000 8mo ago

I guess you're right. It's a pity that Elon Musk was incapable of aligning with the German Green movement. So many good things (e.g. large batteries on the German grid to buffer wind and sun) could have come out of that. The Green party actually helped create the right circumstances to build the German Tesla factory quite fast. He was not exactly grateful later on, supporting their political opponents :-D But I guess their extreme wokeism did not help either.