4 ms·

Are you really confused though or are you feigning? The US Constitution applies to American citizens, if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights pr

Are you really confused though or are you feigning? The US Constitution applies to American citizens, if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights protected by the Constitution, which prohibit the government from infringing on those inalienable, God given rights. Maybe you should look into copying the Constitution where you are if you also want it. We encourage it. It's like when you are a member of some club, let's say a wholesale club. If you are a member, you are allowed to enter and follow the rules of the club. If you are not a member, you do not get to do that and must leave. You are free to create your own wholesale club with your own rules, but conflict arises when you demand or even force entry into our club illegally. That is where we have been for many decades now and security is enforcing the rules because the members of the club that have been paying are getting extremely pissed off after having had to pay for freeloaders for decades now and be abused and disrespected by them for it on top of it. It's not hard to understand, it just seems most people are intentionally and deceptively feigning ignorance. If they are not, we have a way bigger problem that will invariably result in open conflict at some point. If you want to free speech, I suggest you start your own free speech club wherever you are, or if you gain entry to our free speech club, you have to follow the membership rules and if it were up to me, you would have a trial period, restricted rights, and you would have to pay a freeloader rate. These are all very reasonable things to abide by in order to keep peace, but we are now all having to learn the hard lessons of what happens when you allow bad behavior to get away with things, and you do not enforce clearly defined rules against those who even blatantly defy them and disrespect you and what you have created, and even do so in your own home. It didn't need to be like this, but it seems most humans are incapable of simply letting well enough be. It seems one of the most universal human characteristics. It applies from the personal to the government to the ideological/psychological level and it is the origin of all human conflict; you have something someone else wants and they'll end up stewing over it until they try to take it from you by hook or crook if you allow them to. The peace comes from keeping a balance. There has been no balance for as long as anyone is old and then some.

ryandrake 8mo ago
> The US Constitution applies to American citizens, if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights protected by the Constitution So, you think the Constitution does not apply to the millions of permanent residents (green card holders) in the US?
- hopelite 8mo ago
  I don't have to think it, because it does not apply to them in the same way. For all intents and purposes, they are merely on a kind of probationary hiring process or maybe a probationary period, depending on how you want to look at it. Hence, why ... you know... they can't vote. Any and all privileges they enjoy, are effectively just that, privileges, just like you extend them to a guest in your home. For further context; technically a naturalized, i.e., given citizenship can be revoked from someone that was not naturally born an American. Them are the rules, whether you like them or not, and just for not knowing that and having that smug attitude, you should be permanently barred from entry to the USA.
ndsipa_pomu 8mo ago
> if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights protected by the Constitution That's a possible interpretation, but the language used is "No person..." which is most often interpreted as anyone on U.S. soil.
- hopelite 8mo ago
  Are you referring to the 5th Amendment with "No person..."? It doesn't really matter regarding my counter point, but it only highlights that you may not have fully thought through what that implies. If the standard is as broad as a person, any person, since it is not specified what kind of person, beyond the accused one in the 5A, then you must also for consistency, believe that the Constitution applies to the whole world and all it's "persons" since the Constitution also applies to all Americans all around the world, not just on US soil. I am not a fan of that, although I think it would have been great if other countries had adopted the Constitution, but I must presume that many others in the world would not like very much that the USA starts seeing everyone on the planet that is person as falling under its jurisdiction. It leads us down a rather dark hallway where things like the Maduro snatching and the snatching of any other person on the planet that cannot physically prevent it under the justification that every person is subject to the USA. You may say, "well, it only applies to "anyone on U.S. soil", but that also does not hold water since any citizen around the planet is also technically subject to and protected by American law. Do you see the conflict emerging here? And that does not even address the other huge conflict that has corrupted the Constitution and the country for the last 60 years, the birth right citizenship that was simply deliberately and maliciously misapplied and citizenship was given out to tens of millions of people in direct contradiction to democracy, the law, and justice. But that's a whole other topic. It's interesting, because we live in very interesting times in the USA regarding these matters. We are currently experiencing what will both test whether the USA still exists, i.e., it can control it's boundaries and whether or not invasions can and are repelled, even when they simply peacefully just waltz across the border; or if the USA does not exist and definitely not in a democratic republic kind of way when anyone from anywhere in the world can simply just wander across the border, have a child, and is then immediately just allowed to become a citizen at the detriment and without any kind of democratic input of and by the legitimate citizenry.

ryandrake 8mo ago

> The US Constitution applies to American citizens, if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights protected by the Constitution So, you think the Constitution does not apply to the millions of permanent residents (green card holders) in the US?

hopelite 8mo ago
I don't have to think it, because it does not apply to them in the same way. For all intents and purposes, they are merely on a kind of probationary hiring process or maybe a probationary period, depending on how you want to look at it. Hence, why ... you know... they can't vote. Any and all privileges they enjoy, are effectively just that, privileges, just like you extend them to a guest in your home. For further context; technically a naturalized, i.e., given citizenship can be revoked from someone that was not naturally born an American. Them are the rules, whether you like them or not, and just for not knowing that and having that smug attitude, you should be permanently barred from entry to the USA.

ndsipa_pomu 8mo ago

> if you are not a US citizen, you do not have the rights protected by the Constitution That's a possible interpretation, but the language used is "No person..." which is most often interpreted as anyone on U.S. soil.

hopelite 8mo ago
Are you referring to the 5th Amendment with "No person..."? It doesn't really matter regarding my counter point, but it only highlights that you may not have fully thought through what that implies. If the standard is as broad as a person, any person, since it is not specified what kind of person, beyond the accused one in the 5A, then you must also for consistency, believe that the Constitution applies to the whole world and all it's "persons" since the Constitution also applies to all Americans all around the world, not just on US soil. I am not a fan of that, although I think it would have been great if other countries had adopted the Constitution, but I must presume that many others in the world would not like very much that the USA starts seeing everyone on the planet that is person as falling under its jurisdiction. It leads us down a rather dark hallway where things like the Maduro snatching and the snatching of any other person on the planet that cannot physically prevent it under the justification that every person is subject to the USA. You may say, "well, it only applies to "anyone on U.S. soil", but that also does not hold water since any citizen around the planet is also technically subject to and protected by American law. Do you see the conflict emerging here? And that does not even address the other huge conflict that has corrupted the Constitution and the country for the last 60 years, the birth right citizenship that was simply deliberately and maliciously misapplied and citizenship was given out to tens of millions of people in direct contradiction to democracy, the law, and justice. But that's a whole other topic. It's interesting, because we live in very interesting times in the USA regarding these matters. We are currently experiencing what will both test whether the USA still exists, i.e., it can control it's boundaries and whether or not invasions can and are repelled, even when they simply peacefully just waltz across the border; or if the USA does not exist and definitely not in a democratic republic kind of way when anyone from anywhere in the world can simply just wander across the border, have a child, and is then immediately just allowed to become a citizen at the detriment and without any kind of democratic input of and by the legitimate citizenry.