8 ms·

Last time I tried Linux I was so done with Windows I installed Arch. Couldn't connect to Wifi. I figured it was Arch, so I installed Ubuntu. Literally the same

Last time I tried Linux I was so done with Windows I installed Arch. Couldn't connect to Wifi. I figured it was Arch, so I installed Ubuntu. Literally the same problem. So I got a new USB wifi adaptor that said it supported Linux...same problem. I gave up and have been using a MacBook ever since lol.

lpcvoid 8mo ago
Perhaps you could have checked if the firmware was installed? Most distros have non free firmware in their packages, it just needs to be installed.
- llmslave3 8mo ago
  I tried everything lol.
- mft_ 8mo ago
  Or maybe the operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics? Or if it can’t, at least give an indication why? Blaming a new user like this is one of the cultural reasons why the ‘year of the Linux desktop’ has always been n+1.
  - cromka 8mo ago
    You can't just come to Linux and forget about the distinction between free and proprietary software.
  - conz 8mo ago
    Re: "Or maybe the operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics?" So, out of curiosity, if I tried installing MacOS on any of the 15+ computers I have at home, what are the likely chances that this "operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics?" I can tell you that my success rate with Linux is 100%.
    - _yc_is_evil_ 8mo ago
      [dead]
      - dang 8mo ago
        Trollish usernames aren't allowed here (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20trollish%20username https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). Also, it's not ok to create new accounts to abuse HN with, so please don't do that.
    - mft_ 8mo ago
      I’m not especially speaking for MacOS, but to your question, I suspect if you tried to install an appropriate version of MacOS on Mac hardware, you’d have very close to a 100% success rate. That’s certainly my past experience with Mac and, FWIW, Windows too. Anyway, my point wasn’t that Linux should be perfect; but that if it can’t be, maybe give some help why, and more experienced users shouldn’t just jump to blaming the struggling newbie. The key is this: if you want Linux to win with non-experts, it needs to target being a better experience for non-experts than the alternatives, to justify the effort of changing.
      - conz 8mo ago
        Re: "if you want Linux to win with non-experts, it needs to target being a better experience for non-experts than the alternatives" I agree in broad terms, but let me re-capitulate this. Which OS do you think would offer a better experience for non-experts when installing on bare-metal? By my reckoning, Windows is a nightmare to install afresh on random hardware, and MacOS wont work on most-all random hardware. Users think that Windows is easier because they almost never have to install it from scratch. Also, do you factor in the ever-increasing nuisances (AI, ads, spyware)[0][1][2][4] that Microsoft and Apple are injecting into their operating systems, and the move towards digital sovereignty which is accelerating in every nation outside of the US in any computation of what is a 'better experience'? [0]https://au.pcmag.com/migrated-15175-windows-10/104927/microsoft-pushes-start-menu-ads-to-all-windows-11-users https://au.pcmag.com/migrated-15175-windows-10/104927/micros... [1]https://www.techradar.com/news/is-windows-11-spying-on-you-new-report-details-eye-opening-levels-of-telemetry https://www.techradar.com/news/is-windows-11-spying-on-you-n... [2]https://www.itnews.com.au/news/apple-delays-image-scanning-feature-after-criticism-569436 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/apple-delays-image-scanning-f... [4]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/microslop-infuriating-video-sums-up-how-microsoft-is-ruining-windows-with-ai/ar-AA1TKKJ2 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/microslop-infuriat...
  - sagarm 8mo ago
    I tried a clean install of Windows on a lunar lake laptop and it couldn't even find the disk. This is a device that ships with Windows! It's just not feasible to have 100% out of the box hardware compatibility.
conz 8mo ago
Re: "I gave up and have been using a MacBook ever since lol." I'm curious. What will you do when Apple too starts shoehorning AI into every part of MacOS and when Apple introduces increasingly unpalatable or government-mandated surveillance functionality like Microsoft is doing with Recall? What will you do then?
- osamabinladen 8mo ago
  Asahi linux to not waste hardware and then move away from apple products slowly. But in the meantime, their products are good and are Unix based so they're not a pain for development.
  - conz 8mo ago
    Or, you could help accelerate the move away from proprietary platforms, even if there is a small hit to you personally. This is how we help save society, rather than having others do all the work, no? In the end, it's in your best interests that Linux and open platforms improve in the direction you want them to, and the best way to achieve that is by joining the effort now.
- llmslave3 8mo ago
  Probably stop using technology. Might go back to bartending tbh.
  - cindyllm 8mo ago
    [dead]
  - conz 8mo ago
    You can try to stop using technology, but that wont stop the technology from using you: https://www.authoritarian-stack.info/?2 https://www.authoritarian-stack.info/?2 The only safe and sane path for humanity is community built software. All other roads lead to serfdom.
pndy 8mo ago
Last summer Manjaro released usual heavy update and suddenly wifi on my old spare mbp was gone. Luckily digging around I found that a firmware was available in aur so I had to just plug ethernet in, install the package and reboot the system. But then another smaller update out of blue made system unbootable so instead of doing "forensics" I went by the easiest way of reinstalling the system and wifi again was working out of the box.
- amatecha 8mo ago
  Yeowch, for my old MBPs (Core 2 duo I want to say) I run Mint and have had no problems. Maybe just luck of the draw but I've been really impressed
hxorr 8mo ago
This is still a problem. There are a lot of, eg, realtek chipsets that don't work well or simply don't work on Linux. Another issue is they advertise "Linux support," which actually translates to: minimally working driver source available for very out-of-date kernel. Good luck if you want to rely on upstreamed drivers or even run a recent kernel.

lpcvoid 8mo ago

Perhaps you could have checked if the firmware was installed? Most distros have non free firmware in their packages, it just needs to be installed.

llmslave3 8mo ago
I tried everything lol.
mft_ 8mo ago
Or maybe the operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics? Or if it can’t, at least give an indication why? Blaming a new user like this is one of the cultural reasons why the ‘year of the Linux desktop’ has always been n+1.
- cromka 8mo ago
  You can't just come to Linux and forget about the distinction between free and proprietary software.
- conz 8mo ago
  Re: "Or maybe the operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics?" So, out of curiosity, if I tried installing MacOS on any of the 15+ computers I have at home, what are the likely chances that this "operating system should just work reliably for (at least) the basics?" I can tell you that my success rate with Linux is 100%.
  - _yc_is_evil_ 8mo ago
    [dead]
    - dang 8mo ago
      Trollish usernames aren't allowed here (https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20trollish%20username https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...). Also, it's not ok to create new accounts to abuse HN with, so please don't do that.
  - mft_ 8mo ago
    I’m not especially speaking for MacOS, but to your question, I suspect if you tried to install an appropriate version of MacOS on Mac hardware, you’d have very close to a 100% success rate. That’s certainly my past experience with Mac and, FWIW, Windows too. Anyway, my point wasn’t that Linux should be perfect; but that if it can’t be, maybe give some help why, and more experienced users shouldn’t just jump to blaming the struggling newbie. The key is this: if you want Linux to win with non-experts, it needs to target being a better experience for non-experts than the alternatives, to justify the effort of changing.
    - conz 8mo ago
      Re: "if you want Linux to win with non-experts, it needs to target being a better experience for non-experts than the alternatives" I agree in broad terms, but let me re-capitulate this. Which OS do you think would offer a better experience for non-experts when installing on bare-metal? By my reckoning, Windows is a nightmare to install afresh on random hardware, and MacOS wont work on most-all random hardware. Users think that Windows is easier because they almost never have to install it from scratch. Also, do you factor in the ever-increasing nuisances (AI, ads, spyware)[0][1][2][4] that Microsoft and Apple are injecting into their operating systems, and the move towards digital sovereignty which is accelerating in every nation outside of the US in any computation of what is a 'better experience'? [0]https://au.pcmag.com/migrated-15175-windows-10/104927/microsoft-pushes-start-menu-ads-to-all-windows-11-users https://au.pcmag.com/migrated-15175-windows-10/104927/micros... [1]https://www.techradar.com/news/is-windows-11-spying-on-you-new-report-details-eye-opening-levels-of-telemetry https://www.techradar.com/news/is-windows-11-spying-on-you-n... [2]https://www.itnews.com.au/news/apple-delays-image-scanning-feature-after-criticism-569436 https://www.itnews.com.au/news/apple-delays-image-scanning-f... [4]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/microslop-infuriating-video-sums-up-how-microsoft-is-ruining-windows-with-ai/ar-AA1TKKJ2 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/microslop-infuriat...
- sagarm 8mo ago
  I tried a clean install of Windows on a lunar lake laptop and it couldn't even find the disk. This is a device that ships with Windows! It's just not feasible to have 100% out of the box hardware compatibility.

conz 8mo ago

Re: "I gave up and have been using a MacBook ever since lol." I'm curious. What will you do when Apple too starts shoehorning AI into every part of MacOS and when Apple introduces increasingly unpalatable or government-mandated surveillance functionality like Microsoft is doing with Recall? What will you do then?

osamabinladen 8mo ago
Asahi linux to not waste hardware and then move away from apple products slowly. But in the meantime, their products are good and are Unix based so they're not a pain for development.
- conz 8mo ago
  Or, you could help accelerate the move away from proprietary platforms, even if there is a small hit to you personally. This is how we help save society, rather than having others do all the work, no? In the end, it's in your best interests that Linux and open platforms improve in the direction you want them to, and the best way to achieve that is by joining the effort now.
llmslave3 8mo ago
Probably stop using technology. Might go back to bartending tbh.
- cindyllm 8mo ago
  [dead]
- conz 8mo ago
  You can try to stop using technology, but that wont stop the technology from using you: https://www.authoritarian-stack.info/?2 https://www.authoritarian-stack.info/?2 The only safe and sane path for humanity is community built software. All other roads lead to serfdom.

pndy 8mo ago

Last summer Manjaro released usual heavy update and suddenly wifi on my old spare mbp was gone. Luckily digging around I found that a firmware was available in aur so I had to just plug ethernet in, install the package and reboot the system. But then another smaller update out of blue made system unbootable so instead of doing "forensics" I went by the easiest way of reinstalling the system and wifi again was working out of the box.

amatecha 8mo ago
Yeowch, for my old MBPs (Core 2 duo I want to say) I run Mint and have had no problems. Maybe just luck of the draw but I've been really impressed

hxorr 8mo ago

This is still a problem. There are a lot of, eg, realtek chipsets that don't work well or simply don't work on Linux. Another issue is they advertise "Linux support," which actually translates to: minimally working driver source available for very out-of-date kernel. Good luck if you want to rely on upstreamed drivers or even run a recent kernel.