6 ms·

So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Heraled by Matthew as "this is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudfl

So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Heraled by Matthew as "this is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with". However a fine that amounts to ~0.7% of the annual revenue and they threaten to block an entire country?

Illniyar 8mo ago
He isn't threatening to block Italy, just to remove cloudflare's business from there. Anyone living and surfing from Italy would not be blocked by cloudflare from accessing any service provided by cloudflare.
simianparrot 8mo ago
How do you not understand the difference..?
renewiltord 8mo ago
Yeah that makes sense to me. If you come up to me and say “you have to arrest that guy; he’s stealing from me” I have to do a lot of research to make sure that everything is correct. On the other hand, if I see you steal from me, I don’t have to do a lot of research. I am a first party to the thing. I can be sure. It’s the difference between a policeman arriving on the scene of an assault and someone actually assaulting the policeman. The acting party being the affected party simplifies things because you know you’re not a “confused deputy”.
ExpertAdvisor01 8mo ago
Actually, the fine amounts to over 200% of Italy-sourced revenue ($17 million fine vs. $8 million in revenue in 2024). Why would you continue doing business in Italy?
- Foxboron 8mo ago
  They are a conglomerate and per Matthews words "an internet infrastructure provider". Why does the local revenue matter when they are serving a global market? EDIT: And fwiw, "Why would you continue doing business in Italy?" is not what is being proposed. They are threatening to block 55 million people from ~20% of the world wide web.
  - ExpertAdvisor01 8mo ago
    Because they only violated the "law" in a local market (Italy) .
    - Foxboron 8mo ago
      And the correct response to that is to write up a threat towards the entire population of a country?
      - bluecalm 8mo ago
        What else could they do? The government represent the country. If their business model is not welcome there then they withdraw. It's very fair to say "if you insist on those rules I choose not to play". They owe Italy nothing. Btw, I recently "threatened" Switzerland to withdraw my business from there because the cost of doing business there (complying with their VAT regulation) is higher than my revenue from there (maybe 1-2 licenses a year). The whole Switzerland will not be able to buy my software because of that. I didn't think of posting about it on Twitter though.
        Foxboron 8mo ago
        > What else could they do? The government represent the country. If their business model is not welcome there then they withdraw. It's very fair to say "if you insist on those rules I choose not to play". They can just not threaten the population of Italy? They are a 2 billion dollar company that has apparently scheduled a meeting with the vice president of the US on short notice? This is going to be resolved politically. > Btw, I recently "threatened" Switzerland to withdraw my business from there because the cost of doing business there (complying with their VAT regulation) is higher than my revenue from there (maybe 1-2 licenses a year). The whole Switzerland will not be able to buy my software because of that. I didn't think of posting about it on Twitter though. You have not given "free services" to 20% of the world wide web that you are now using as leverage.
        8mo ago
- Hamuko 8mo ago
  How much revenue did Kiwifarms bring in?
pessimizer 8mo ago
> So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Kiwifarms isn't a pirate site. It's just another site that you think is legitimate to censor. > However a fine that amounts to ~0.7% of the annual revenue and they threaten to block an entire country? What's going to be next weeks fine? Of course they should block the entire country. Even if they pay the fine (I could imagine there's some way that the EU could force that on pain of forcing them out of Europe), they should block the country. Shouldn't Italy want lawbreakers to leave?
Alex2037 8mo ago
>activism and loud complaining I'm not sure why would you want to remind the world about that episode. those men lied, stalked, harassed, and threatened a lot of people to get that perfectly legal website exposed to very illegal DDoS attacks.

Illniyar 8mo ago

He isn't threatening to block Italy, just to remove cloudflare's business from there. Anyone living and surfing from Italy would not be blocked by cloudflare from accessing any service provided by cloudflare.

simianparrot 8mo ago

How do you not understand the difference..?

renewiltord 8mo ago

Yeah that makes sense to me. If you come up to me and say “you have to arrest that guy; he’s stealing from me” I have to do a lot of research to make sure that everything is correct. On the other hand, if I see you steal from me, I don’t have to do a lot of research. I am a first party to the thing. I can be sure. It’s the difference between a policeman arriving on the scene of an assault and someone actually assaulting the policeman. The acting party being the affected party simplifies things because you know you’re not a “confused deputy”.

ExpertAdvisor01 8mo ago

Actually, the fine amounts to over 200% of Italy-sourced revenue ($17 million fine vs. $8 million in revenue in 2024). Why would you continue doing business in Italy?

Foxboron 8mo ago
They are a conglomerate and per Matthews words "an internet infrastructure provider". Why does the local revenue matter when they are serving a global market? EDIT: And fwiw, "Why would you continue doing business in Italy?" is not what is being proposed. They are threatening to block 55 million people from ~20% of the world wide web.
- ExpertAdvisor01 8mo ago
  Because they only violated the "law" in a local market (Italy) .
  - Foxboron 8mo ago
    And the correct response to that is to write up a threat towards the entire population of a country?
    - bluecalm 8mo ago
      What else could they do? The government represent the country. If their business model is not welcome there then they withdraw. It's very fair to say "if you insist on those rules I choose not to play". They owe Italy nothing. Btw, I recently "threatened" Switzerland to withdraw my business from there because the cost of doing business there (complying with their VAT regulation) is higher than my revenue from there (maybe 1-2 licenses a year). The whole Switzerland will not be able to buy my software because of that. I didn't think of posting about it on Twitter though.
      - Foxboron 8mo ago
        > What else could they do? The government represent the country. If their business model is not welcome there then they withdraw. It's very fair to say "if you insist on those rules I choose not to play". They can just not threaten the population of Italy? They are a 2 billion dollar company that has apparently scheduled a meeting with the vice president of the US on short notice? This is going to be resolved politically. > Btw, I recently "threatened" Switzerland to withdraw my business from there because the cost of doing business there (complying with their VAT regulation) is higher than my revenue from there (maybe 1-2 licenses a year). The whole Switzerland will not be able to buy my software because of that. I didn't think of posting about it on Twitter though. You have not given "free services" to 20% of the world wide web that you are now using as leverage.
        8mo ago
Hamuko 8mo ago
How much revenue did Kiwifarms bring in?

pessimizer 8mo ago

> So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Kiwifarms isn't a pirate site. It's just another site that you think is legitimate to censor. > However a fine that amounts to ~0.7% of the annual revenue and they threaten to block an entire country? What's going to be next weeks fine? Of course they should block the entire country. Even if they pay the fine (I could imagine there's some way that the EU could force that on pain of forcing them out of Europe), they should block the country. Shouldn't Italy want lawbreakers to leave?

Alex2037 8mo ago

>activism and loud complaining I'm not sure why would you want to remind the world about that episode. those men lied, stalked, harassed, and threatened a lot of people to get that perfectly legal website exposed to very illegal DDoS attacks.