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No reason to believe their numbers either given the shenanigans they have engaged in. We need to be smart and not knee jerk into feel good memes though. Local

by hiQloIQ 8mo ago

No reason to believe their numbers either given the shenanigans they have engaged in. We need to be smart and not knee jerk into feel good memes though. Local gardens and community gardens have higher resource use per acre than large farm ops. Commercial farm infrastructure is far more resilient and lasts longer while consumer gardening gear is cheap and disposable. Consumer gardening gear manufacturers factories burn tons of resources to crank out tons of low quality kit, consumers burn through piles of it. That's not sustainable either. Plus you really want the average American dumping chemicals in community ground water to grow the biggest pumpkin in the zip code? Americans need to find common ground on the path forward not fragment into tens of millions of little resource intensive potato farmers

bamboozled 8mo ago
That's how Japan works...how horrendous ?
- brigandish 8mo ago
  Japan is not a model to follow.
  - bamboozled 8mo ago
    Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm? Also, just because their setup isn't optimal, doesn't mean it's the cause for some ecological crisis like you seem to be implying. I live in Japan, I watch people farm every year, there is very little going on that makes me suspect there is some wide-spread ecological damage being done by people who want to grow massive pumpkins, even though, people do grow massive pumpkins. You telling everyone that gardening is bad for the environment is interesting because I absolutely cannot imagine what is worse for the environment than the industrial scale monocrop style farming that goes on most developed countries. Like, holy shit...
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - spiderfarmer 8mo ago
      People need to eat and industrial scale farming is what enables us to make enough, affordable food. It has plenty downsides. But it’s a brilliant and truly efficient system that is being perfected by thousands of scientists and it has prevented hunger and chaos for decades now. If you want to see real change, people would need to have way more time, be less lazy, have more money and be less demanding when it comes to variety and availability. In other words, it’s easier to keep perfecting the system we have because it’s easier to change procedures than it is to change people.
      - johnisgood 8mo ago
        "enough, affordable food" makes me think of all the food waste we have. I do not think that food scarcity is an issue.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - bamboozled 8mo ago
        Didn't say we can do away with Industrial scale farming, just that I live in a part of Japan where people grow so much of their own food, they struggle to give it away by the end of the summer. So yeah, didn't mean to imply industrial scale farming is "naughty", just that Japan is notorious for smaller farming operations and I've seen a lot of food grown successfully here at small or micro scale. I think a healthy mix of both things is important. Look at Australia, basically no one grows any food and they're completely at the mercy of insanely inflated food prices dictated by corporations like Woolworths. At least in rural parts of Japan, a lot of people can lower their grocery costs with supplemental, home grown food. I actually have notice a bit of a rebellious culture amongst farmers here. It's interesting but for a different topic I guess.
    - murderfs 8mo ago
      > Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm? You're talking about the same Japan that's had rice shortages for like two years now, right?
akoboldfrying 8mo ago
> Local gardens and community gardens have higher resource use per acre than large farm ops. It amazes me how few people are cognisant of this very obvious and important fact.
NPC82 8mo ago
The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed. Many are federally funded at schools, community centers, or local libraries to serve as outdoor classrooms.
- mlrtime 8mo ago
  That's great, but they cannot feed a nation 100% or even close for long periods of time.
  - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
    They can help educate a nation on which are the healthiest foods to eat, how to prepare them, what they taste like, etc. That may allow us to more healthily feed a nation 100%, while also using fewer resources.
- rayiner 8mo ago
  > The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed No, it should be measured in terms of amount of input relative to the amount of output. It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming.
  - dctoedt 8mo ago
    > It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming. I can relate: Our SIL gave my wife a countertop gadget that holds six little cups into which you drop pre-packaged paper cups of seeds and soil. (You order them online.) The gadget has a grow light. You have to water the cups periodically My ux uses the gadget to grow basil and parsley, and snips off bits of leaves as needed for cooking. All-in, the crops cost probably 5-10X what we'd pay for fresh herbs at a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, let alone at an Aldi's or H-E-B. Ah, well: Signaling love and appreciation is important ....
neuralRiot 8mo ago
> Plus you really want the average American dumping chemicals in community ground water to grow the biggest pumpkin in the zip code? Just because it’s out of sight doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Industrial farming and specially animal farming is one of the most polluting industries, subsidized to produce environmental damage, population diseases and animal abuse.

by hiQloIQ 8mo ago

bamboozled 8mo ago

That's how Japan works...how horrendous ?

brigandish 8mo ago
Japan is not a model to follow.
- bamboozled 8mo ago
  Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm? Also, just because their setup isn't optimal, doesn't mean it's the cause for some ecological crisis like you seem to be implying. I live in Japan, I watch people farm every year, there is very little going on that makes me suspect there is some wide-spread ecological damage being done by people who want to grow massive pumpkins, even though, people do grow massive pumpkins. You telling everyone that gardening is bad for the environment is interesting because I absolutely cannot imagine what is worse for the environment than the industrial scale monocrop style farming that goes on most developed countries. Like, holy shit...
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - spiderfarmer 8mo ago
    People need to eat and industrial scale farming is what enables us to make enough, affordable food. It has plenty downsides. But it’s a brilliant and truly efficient system that is being perfected by thousands of scientists and it has prevented hunger and chaos for decades now. If you want to see real change, people would need to have way more time, be less lazy, have more money and be less demanding when it comes to variety and availability. In other words, it’s easier to keep perfecting the system we have because it’s easier to change procedures than it is to change people.
    - johnisgood 8mo ago
      "enough, affordable food" makes me think of all the food waste we have. I do not think that food scarcity is an issue.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - bamboozled 8mo ago
      Didn't say we can do away with Industrial scale farming, just that I live in a part of Japan where people grow so much of their own food, they struggle to give it away by the end of the summer. So yeah, didn't mean to imply industrial scale farming is "naughty", just that Japan is notorious for smaller farming operations and I've seen a lot of food grown successfully here at small or micro scale. I think a healthy mix of both things is important. Look at Australia, basically no one grows any food and they're completely at the mercy of insanely inflated food prices dictated by corporations like Woolworths. At least in rural parts of Japan, a lot of people can lower their grocery costs with supplemental, home grown food. I actually have notice a bit of a rebellious culture amongst farmers here. It's interesting but for a different topic I guess.
  - murderfs 8mo ago
    > Been doing it the same way for centuries so, care to elaborate on what's wrong with how they farm? You're talking about the same Japan that's had rice shortages for like two years now, right?

akoboldfrying 8mo ago

> Local gardens and community gardens have higher resource use per acre than large farm ops. It amazes me how few people are cognisant of this very obvious and important fact.

NPC82 8mo ago

The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed. Many are federally funded at schools, community centers, or local libraries to serve as outdoor classrooms.

mlrtime 8mo ago
That's great, but they cannot feed a nation 100% or even close for long periods of time.
- 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
  They can help educate a nation on which are the healthiest foods to eat, how to prepare them, what they taste like, etc. That may allow us to more healthily feed a nation 100%, while also using fewer resources.
rayiner 8mo ago
> The value of smaller gardens are not measured in the produce harvested but the knowledge sowed No, it should be measured in terms of amount of input relative to the amount of output. It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming.
- dctoedt 8mo ago
  > It’s almost never the case that small farms is going to be more efficient—not only cost wise, but for the environment—than large scale farming. I can relate: Our SIL gave my wife a countertop gadget that holds six little cups into which you drop pre-packaged paper cups of seeds and soil. (You order them online.) The gadget has a grow light. You have to water the cups periodically My ux uses the gadget to grow basil and parsley, and snips off bits of leaves as needed for cooking. All-in, the crops cost probably 5-10X what we'd pay for fresh herbs at a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, let alone at an Aldi's or H-E-B. Ah, well: Signaling love and appreciation is important ....

neuralRiot 8mo ago

> Plus you really want the average American dumping chemicals in community ground water to grow the biggest pumpkin in the zip code? Just because it’s out of sight doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Industrial farming and specially animal farming is one of the most polluting industries, subsidized to produce environmental damage, population diseases and animal abuse.