4 ms·

But this is a 'cart before the horse' situation. What evidence do you have that providing your health information to this company will help you or anyone (othe

by midldei 8mo ago

But this is a 'cart before the horse' situation. What evidence do you have that providing your health information to this company will help you or anyone (other than those with financial interest in the company)? There is a very real, near definite, chance that giving your, and others', health data to this company will hurt you and others. Will you still hold this, "I personally don’t care who has access to my health data", position?

cyberpunk 8mo ago
I’m definitely a privacy fist person, but can you explain how health data could hurt you, besides obvious things like being discriminated against for insurance if you have a drug habit or whatever. Like, i’m a fitness conscious 30 something white male, what risk is there of my appendix operation being common knowledge or that i need more iron or something?
- idiotsecant 8mo ago
  Is your point 'I have no major health conditions, so nobody could be hurt by releasing health data'? If so, I don't think I need to point out the gap in this logic.
  - cyberpunk 8mo ago
    Actually you maybe do. I am extremely privacy conscious; so i’m on your side on this one but health data is a bit different from handing over all your email and purchase information to google — in that scenario the danger is that the political or religious or whatever attributes i may have could be exposed to a future regime who considers what is acceptable today to no longer be so, uses them to profile and … whatever me, right? What actual danger is there from a government or a us tech company having my blood work details when i actually have nothing to hide like drug abuse or alcohol etc? health data seems much less risky than my political views, religion, sexuality, minor crimes committed and so on.
    - azan_ 8mo ago
      Depends on the data - if you had genetic data they might run PGS and infer that even though you are healthy now, your genes might predispose you to something bad and deny insurance based on that. If you truly do not see dangers of health data access remember that they could genotype you even when you came just for ordinary bloodwork.
      - cyberpunk 8mo ago
        Fortunately I live in a country where one cannot be denied insurance, but yeah I didnt think of these really, was a bit of a “typed before i really thought” moment maybe i should put the keyboard down ;). It seems like an easy fix with legislation, at least outside the US, though. Mandatory insurance for all with reasonable banded rates, and maximum profit margins for insurers?
      - HPsquared 8mo ago
        Isn't it more productive to regulate health insurance and make health a protected attribute of a person like disability etc?
    - georgebcrawford 8mo ago
      Not danger as in being kidnapped by government agents, danger in terms of being denied a job or insurance or anything else. Your comment is extraordinarily naive.
      - cyberpunk 8mo ago
        I wasn’t saying there is no danger — just that I didn’t really think about it or see the problem, your sibling comments have changed that. Maybe i am naive but i was asking genuinely not stating i think otherwise.. Unfortunately i have family members in the us and pretty much all of them happily sent their dna off to various services so im fucked either way at this point…
        georgebcrawford 8mo ago
  - moralestapia 8mo ago
    @cyberpunk's question is pretty clear. You could try to answer that instead of making up a strawman. Dialogue 101 but some people still ignore it.
- mrj 8mo ago
  Well maybe your health data picks up a heart condition you didn't know about. Maybe you don't know but your car insurance drops you due to the risk you'll have a cardiac event while driving. Their AI flagged you. You need a new job but the same AI powers the HR screening and denies you because you'll cost more and might have health problems. You'd never know why. You try to take out a second on the house to pay for expenses, just to get back on your feet, but the AI-powered risk officer judges your payback potential to be %.001 underneath the target and are denied. The previously treatable heart condition is now dire due to the additional stress of no job, no car and no house and the financial situation continues to erode. You apply for assistance but are denied because the heart condition is treatable and you're then obviously capable of working and don't meet the standard.
- midldei 8mo ago
  > i’m a fitness conscious 30 something white male Right. So able bodied, and the gender and race least associated with violence from the state. > being discriminated against for insurance if you have a drug habit "drug habit", Why choose an example that is often admonished as a personal failing? How about we say the same, but have something wholly, inarguably, outside of your control, like race, be the discriminating factor? You medical records may be your DNA. The US once had a racist legal principle called the "one drop rule": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule Now imagine an, lets say 'sympathetic to the Nazi agenda', administration takes control of the US gov's health and state sanctioned violence services. They decide to use those tools to address all of the, what they consider, 'undesirables'. Your DNA says you have "one drop" of the undesirable's blood, some ancient ancestor you were unaware of, and this admin tells you they are going to discriminate against your insurance because of it based on some racist psuedoscience. You say, "but I thought i was a 30 something WHITE male!!" and they tell you "welp, you were wrong, we have your medical records to prove it", you get irate that somehow your medical records left the datacenter of that llm company you liked to have make funny cat pictures for you and got in their hands, and they claim your behavior caused them to fear for their lives and now you are in a detention center or a shallow grave. "That's an absurd exaggeration." You may say, but the current admin is already removing funding, or entire agencies, based on policy(DEI etc) and race(singling out Haitian and Somali immigrants), how is it much different from Jim Crow era policies like redlining? If you find yourself thinking, "I'm a fitness conscious 30 something white male, why should I care?", it can help to develop some empathy, and stop to think "what if I was anything but a fitness conscious 30 something white male?"
  - dash2 8mo ago
    These points seem to be arguments against giving your health data to anybody, not just to an AI company.
    - saghm 8mo ago
      If there's no evidence that it will help you or others, then that's a pretty hard position to argue against. The parent commenter asked about this, and the response basically was that it didn't seem likely to be harmful, and now you're responding to that.
- junpfker 8mo ago
  What if you were a woman seeking medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy? ‘Being able to access people’s medical records is just another tool in law enforcement’s toolbox to prosecute people for stigmatized care' They are already using the legal system in order to force their way into your medical records to prosecute you under their new 'anti-abortion' rulings. https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/reproductive_rights/texas-judge-vacates-rule-protecting-medical-privacy-for-abortion-care/ https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/reproductive_rights/texa...
spongebobstoes 8mo ago
I personally have been helped by talking to ChatGPT about my healthcare. That's the evidence. I will take concrete positive health outcomes now, over your fears of the future.

by midldei 8mo ago

cyberpunk 8mo ago

I’m definitely a privacy fist person, but can you explain how health data could hurt you, besides obvious things like being discriminated against for insurance if you have a drug habit or whatever. Like, i’m a fitness conscious 30 something white male, what risk is there of my appendix operation being common knowledge or that i need more iron or something?

idiotsecant 8mo ago
Is your point 'I have no major health conditions, so nobody could be hurt by releasing health data'? If so, I don't think I need to point out the gap in this logic.
- cyberpunk 8mo ago
  Actually you maybe do. I am extremely privacy conscious; so i’m on your side on this one but health data is a bit different from handing over all your email and purchase information to google — in that scenario the danger is that the political or religious or whatever attributes i may have could be exposed to a future regime who considers what is acceptable today to no longer be so, uses them to profile and … whatever me, right? What actual danger is there from a government or a us tech company having my blood work details when i actually have nothing to hide like drug abuse or alcohol etc? health data seems much less risky than my political views, religion, sexuality, minor crimes committed and so on.
  - azan_ 8mo ago
    Depends on the data - if you had genetic data they might run PGS and infer that even though you are healthy now, your genes might predispose you to something bad and deny insurance based on that. If you truly do not see dangers of health data access remember that they could genotype you even when you came just for ordinary bloodwork.
    - cyberpunk 8mo ago
      Fortunately I live in a country where one cannot be denied insurance, but yeah I didnt think of these really, was a bit of a “typed before i really thought” moment maybe i should put the keyboard down ;). It seems like an easy fix with legislation, at least outside the US, though. Mandatory insurance for all with reasonable banded rates, and maximum profit margins for insurers?
    - HPsquared 8mo ago
      Isn't it more productive to regulate health insurance and make health a protected attribute of a person like disability etc?
  - georgebcrawford 8mo ago
    Not danger as in being kidnapped by government agents, danger in terms of being denied a job or insurance or anything else. Your comment is extraordinarily naive.
    - cyberpunk 8mo ago
      I wasn’t saying there is no danger — just that I didn’t really think about it or see the problem, your sibling comments have changed that. Maybe i am naive but i was asking genuinely not stating i think otherwise.. Unfortunately i have family members in the us and pretty much all of them happily sent their dna off to various services so im fucked either way at this point…
      - georgebcrawford 8mo ago
- moralestapia 8mo ago
  @cyberpunk's question is pretty clear. You could try to answer that instead of making up a strawman. Dialogue 101 but some people still ignore it.
mrj 8mo ago
Well maybe your health data picks up a heart condition you didn't know about. Maybe you don't know but your car insurance drops you due to the risk you'll have a cardiac event while driving. Their AI flagged you. You need a new job but the same AI powers the HR screening and denies you because you'll cost more and might have health problems. You'd never know why. You try to take out a second on the house to pay for expenses, just to get back on your feet, but the AI-powered risk officer judges your payback potential to be %.001 underneath the target and are denied. The previously treatable heart condition is now dire due to the additional stress of no job, no car and no house and the financial situation continues to erode. You apply for assistance but are denied because the heart condition is treatable and you're then obviously capable of working and don't meet the standard.
midldei 8mo ago
> i’m a fitness conscious 30 something white male Right. So able bodied, and the gender and race least associated with violence from the state. > being discriminated against for insurance if you have a drug habit "drug habit", Why choose an example that is often admonished as a personal failing? How about we say the same, but have something wholly, inarguably, outside of your control, like race, be the discriminating factor? You medical records may be your DNA. The US once had a racist legal principle called the "one drop rule": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule Now imagine an, lets say 'sympathetic to the Nazi agenda', administration takes control of the US gov's health and state sanctioned violence services. They decide to use those tools to address all of the, what they consider, 'undesirables'. Your DNA says you have "one drop" of the undesirable's blood, some ancient ancestor you were unaware of, and this admin tells you they are going to discriminate against your insurance because of it based on some racist psuedoscience. You say, "but I thought i was a 30 something WHITE male!!" and they tell you "welp, you were wrong, we have your medical records to prove it", you get irate that somehow your medical records left the datacenter of that llm company you liked to have make funny cat pictures for you and got in their hands, and they claim your behavior caused them to fear for their lives and now you are in a detention center or a shallow grave. "That's an absurd exaggeration." You may say, but the current admin is already removing funding, or entire agencies, based on policy(DEI etc) and race(singling out Haitian and Somali immigrants), how is it much different from Jim Crow era policies like redlining? If you find yourself thinking, "I'm a fitness conscious 30 something white male, why should I care?", it can help to develop some empathy, and stop to think "what if I was anything but a fitness conscious 30 something white male?"
- dash2 8mo ago
  These points seem to be arguments against giving your health data to anybody, not just to an AI company.
  - saghm 8mo ago
    If there's no evidence that it will help you or others, then that's a pretty hard position to argue against. The parent commenter asked about this, and the response basically was that it didn't seem likely to be harmful, and now you're responding to that.
junpfker 8mo ago
What if you were a woman seeking medical treatment for an ectopic pregnancy? ‘Being able to access people’s medical records is just another tool in law enforcement’s toolbox to prosecute people for stigmatized care' They are already using the legal system in order to force their way into your medical records to prosecute you under their new 'anti-abortion' rulings. https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/reproductive_rights/texas-judge-vacates-rule-protecting-medical-privacy-for-abortion-care/ https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/reproductive_rights/texa...

spongebobstoes 8mo ago

I personally have been helped by talking to ChatGPT about my healthcare. That's the evidence. I will take concrete positive health outcomes now, over your fears of the future.