9 ms·

France had almost a thousand years of autocratic and aggressive tradition. Prussia/Germany too. There’s many more examples. These things can and do change.

wiseowise 9mo ago
Not anymore. Marie Antoinette literally had to lose her head for this to happen. Mustache man too, suffering humiliating total defeat. What happened to Russia? They killed their czar and got soviets that destroyed most of the legacy of Russian empire. They live in a constant dissonance ever since because their fake red empire was never a system to last, but it introduced enough destruction to kill religion and their ability to perceive world through a rational lens.
- benterix 9mo ago
  Russia needs to find a new identity. Someone like Navalny might have led it out of the blind alley it was in. I still hope after Putin dies there is some good changes as young people, at least the educated ones, don't share Putin's twisted worldview at all.
  - wiseowise 9mo ago
    No, Navalny was never “the guy”, he’s literally jokingly referred to as “the buterbrod” (sandwich) because of his comments about Crimea (“Crimea is not a sandwich to be passed around” in the context of “returning” Crimea to Ukraine). “Russian liberalism stops at the border of Ukraine”
    - aleksi 9mo ago
      You omit the fact that he took those words back and said “Crimea is Ukraine” while being in prison, knowing well it will not make his life (and death) easier
  - anticodon 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - benterix 9mo ago
      > Navalny was dumb and nazi. He was called worse names. Nevrtheless, he did something past Russian heroes did: voluntarily sacrificed his life. He knew Putin will kill him but decided to go back anyway. Yes, you may say it "dumb". But the mere existence of such a strong spirit gives me hope that someone else who actually cares for Russians, for their wellbeing, for their future, can actually undo all this mess Putin got Russia into.
      - koiueo 9mo ago
        And that was the best thing navalny ever done -- minus one imperialistic russian bastard. I really hope his loyal beloved wife soon follows his footsteps instead of spreading imperialistic russian propaganda.
    - ajmurmann 9mo ago
      > He and his cohort were sponsored by the West and the West clearly loves Russian people and wish us the best possible future, yeah, we believe. Why do you not believe this? As someone who identifies as Western, I want for all people's to prosper. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone in Europe or the US who had it out for Russians. All resentment send exclusively be towards nationalists.
      - brabel 9mo ago
        For the same reason no one in the West believed Putin when he said expanding NATO was not necessary since Russia was not the enemy anymore. The West still wanted to allow ex Soviet countries to join NATO even if that would cause hostility from Russia. It really is a self fulfilling prophecy caused by mistrust from both sides. It’s always so easy to blame only one side when you’re strongly biased towards one of the sides, but if you look at it from a neutral perspective, clearly both sides behaved in a way as to make the current situation completely unavoidable. And neither is willing to make a change now and will just double down until one side is completely defeated. Russia alone has no chance, but if when shit hits the fan its BRICS friends continue to back it up, we may be heading to something even more disastrous than WWII. I am not optimistic.
- simonh 9mo ago
  >Marie Antoinette literally had to lose her head for this to happen. Arguably it was actually Robespierre losing is head that had to happen to stop the madness (Terror) in France, or at least create the conditions for it to stop eventually. I don't know what has to happen in Russia. It is possible for autocratic states, that have always been autocratic, to transition to liberal democracy. It did happen in France, but even after the end of the Terror it still went through a long phase of imperial autocracy. It takes time to develop institutions strong enough to resist autocracy.

wiseowise 9mo ago

Not anymore. Marie Antoinette literally had to lose her head for this to happen. Mustache man too, suffering humiliating total defeat. What happened to Russia? They killed their czar and got soviets that destroyed most of the legacy of Russian empire. They live in a constant dissonance ever since because their fake red empire was never a system to last, but it introduced enough destruction to kill religion and their ability to perceive world through a rational lens.

benterix 9mo ago
Russia needs to find a new identity. Someone like Navalny might have led it out of the blind alley it was in. I still hope after Putin dies there is some good changes as young people, at least the educated ones, don't share Putin's twisted worldview at all.
- wiseowise 9mo ago
  No, Navalny was never “the guy”, he’s literally jokingly referred to as “the buterbrod” (sandwich) because of his comments about Crimea (“Crimea is not a sandwich to be passed around” in the context of “returning” Crimea to Ukraine). “Russian liberalism stops at the border of Ukraine”
  - aleksi 9mo ago
    You omit the fact that he took those words back and said “Crimea is Ukraine” while being in prison, knowing well it will not make his life (and death) easier
- anticodon 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - benterix 9mo ago
    > Navalny was dumb and nazi. He was called worse names. Nevrtheless, he did something past Russian heroes did: voluntarily sacrificed his life. He knew Putin will kill him but decided to go back anyway. Yes, you may say it "dumb". But the mere existence of such a strong spirit gives me hope that someone else who actually cares for Russians, for their wellbeing, for their future, can actually undo all this mess Putin got Russia into.
    - koiueo 9mo ago
      And that was the best thing navalny ever done -- minus one imperialistic russian bastard. I really hope his loyal beloved wife soon follows his footsteps instead of spreading imperialistic russian propaganda.
  - ajmurmann 9mo ago
    > He and his cohort were sponsored by the West and the West clearly loves Russian people and wish us the best possible future, yeah, we believe. Why do you not believe this? As someone who identifies as Western, I want for all people's to prosper. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone in Europe or the US who had it out for Russians. All resentment send exclusively be towards nationalists.
    - brabel 9mo ago
      For the same reason no one in the West believed Putin when he said expanding NATO was not necessary since Russia was not the enemy anymore. The West still wanted to allow ex Soviet countries to join NATO even if that would cause hostility from Russia. It really is a self fulfilling prophecy caused by mistrust from both sides. It’s always so easy to blame only one side when you’re strongly biased towards one of the sides, but if you look at it from a neutral perspective, clearly both sides behaved in a way as to make the current situation completely unavoidable. And neither is willing to make a change now and will just double down until one side is completely defeated. Russia alone has no chance, but if when shit hits the fan its BRICS friends continue to back it up, we may be heading to something even more disastrous than WWII. I am not optimistic.
simonh 9mo ago
>Marie Antoinette literally had to lose her head for this to happen. Arguably it was actually Robespierre losing is head that had to happen to stop the madness (Terror) in France, or at least create the conditions for it to stop eventually. I don't know what has to happen in Russia. It is possible for autocratic states, that have always been autocratic, to transition to liberal democracy. It did happen in France, but even after the end of the Terror it still went through a long phase of imperial autocracy. It takes time to develop institutions strong enough to resist autocracy.