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Have you not seen Tesla's stock price? Autopilot? Robotaxis? (I say this as a Tesla owner who literally doesnt drive anymore since I just use autopilot. I also

Have you not seen Tesla's stock price? Autopilot? Robotaxis? (I say this as a Tesla owner who literally doesnt drive anymore since I just use autopilot. I also live in downtown austin and see Robotaxis everywhere) Lol I've pretty much checked out of HN since the discussion here is reddit r/technology level of competence. The idea that TSLA is failing is so completely moronic that it's astonishing. The stock is at an all time high?

qwerpy 9mo ago
The election broke a lot of people and the daily negative Tesla and political posts are HN's way of compartmentalizing them. Otherwise they would metastasize all over the entire site. I agree with you. It could put a huge dent in the tens of thousands of American lives lost every year if autonomous driving was mandated. Barring that, at least I'll protect my own family by using self-driving in the largest possible car (truck) I can buy.
- carlgreene 9mo ago
  I have such a difficult time with this. Not the self driving part, but the largest possible car/truck part. As a cyclist in a very truck-and-large-car-obsessed state I really hate them and their drivers scare me. And because of that I have a really hard time convincing myself that I should be in one too vs. a smaller more practical car. But at the same time I realize that my family getting hit in a Honda Accord (most likely by a much larger car) is going to be quite a bit worse than if we get hit in a Cybertruck or GMC Sierra.
  - saagarjha 9mo ago
    There are many things you can understand are a tragedy of the commons and yet decide to make a choice that is not optimal for yourself even if it makes you worse off.
  - jutter 9mo ago
    [dead]
  - qwerpy 9mo ago
    Would you rather share the road with a Cybertruck that's driving itself with all the cameras and sensors and collision avoidance features, or a Honda Civic being driven by a human who could be young/old/on their cell phone/fleeing police?
carlgreene 9mo ago
For real. I just assume that anyone who talks like that has never driven the car and has not used FSD in the past couple years. Say what you want about Elon, his politics, whatever, but the cars and technology are absolutely incredible.
- breve 9mo ago
  > but the cars and technology are absolutely incredible. Tesla is securing its status as a legacy EV manufacturer. They are the behind the EV technology curve these days. For example they don't charge as fast as other EVs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk The Zeekr 7X charges at a peak of 415 kW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rb4U2CSYY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rb4U2CSYY0
fnordpiglet 9mo ago
To be fair stock price is not a great indicator of much. Sales are down YoY with no prospect of recovery. Stock price has no bearing on current operations unless they raise capital by selling equity. It’s also been the case that Tesla stock price has been disconnected from performance often. The amount of ill will he’s generated among his core market is enormous, and the tailwinds he had with green policy have been replace with significant head winds with an aggressively (and bizarrely) pro-pollution administration based on a retribution model than a technocratic model. This is especially bad for Tesla as musk actively sought retribution so there is no reason to believe this is going to go well for Tesla over the next few years. He dumped all over his customers to curry favor with someone that now hates him and has a history of actively seeking revenge - what a mess. As an owner of two Tesla and a frequent user of autopilot with FSD, I don’t believe we will be seeing a significant rollout in any but the easiest to travel areas. SF, LA, Seattle or the other places Waymo currently is either running or preparing to operate are much more challenging road environments than Austin, and Waymo is already fully autonomous with years of track record in these areas. There’s no chance robotaxi will overtake Waymo - I use them often, use FSD often. They aren’t comparable - Waymo is considerably more advanced and capable. Sorry man, I wished Tesla was going to win out, but by shifting focus to ever more bizarre efforts away from their core cars (when’s the last time a real X or S model refresh happened?) they lost the initiative. BYD and the other legion of Chinese EV are going to eat Tesla alive within 5 years. I’ve had the chance to ride in and drive many of the brands overseas and they are a fraction the price and about as good. It’s over.
- cindyllm 9mo ago
  [dead]
- Ferret7446 9mo ago
  Stock price is certainly a better indicator than any numbers coming out of China. The question isn't whether the numbers are fudged but how many times were they fudged, at each step in the reporting chain.
inkysigma 9mo ago
It's weird to me that when people talk about Tesla, the business, is doing poorly, the retort is citing the stock price as if that's somehow what the person is talking about and not going to be seen as disconnected from fundamentals by the person you're talking to. So many things were being used to justify the stock price have simply not materialized. For example, the idea that Dojo would be a lasting moat does not appear to be materially true. As a business, they've seen declining yearly revenues (2025 is expected to be lower overall) and declining sales on a YoY basis in a sector that has seen tremendous growth. The article we're on literally is how Tesla squandered their lead over BYD. Autopilot and FSD are neat (for some definition of neat) but have clear competitors with Waymo being far ahead in deployment. BYD has their own developing system that's not as good but it's not clear to be that FSD will be some kind of enduring advantage either given that parallel systems are also being developed.
- dzhiurgis 9mo ago
  If smartest analysts of wall street are leaving money on the table, go ahead, take it.
- lawn 9mo ago
  > It's weird to me that when people talk about Tesla, the business, is doing poorly, the retort is citing the stock price as if that's somehow what the person is talking about and not going to be seen as disconnected from fundamentals by the person you're talking to. Incidentally the same way people defend Bitcoin.
- stogot 9mo ago
  IBM stock price IS INCREDIBLE TOO until you realize it is financial engineering

qwerpy 9mo ago

The election broke a lot of people and the daily negative Tesla and political posts are HN's way of compartmentalizing them. Otherwise they would metastasize all over the entire site. I agree with you. It could put a huge dent in the tens of thousands of American lives lost every year if autonomous driving was mandated. Barring that, at least I'll protect my own family by using self-driving in the largest possible car (truck) I can buy.

carlgreene 9mo ago
I have such a difficult time with this. Not the self driving part, but the largest possible car/truck part. As a cyclist in a very truck-and-large-car-obsessed state I really hate them and their drivers scare me. And because of that I have a really hard time convincing myself that I should be in one too vs. a smaller more practical car. But at the same time I realize that my family getting hit in a Honda Accord (most likely by a much larger car) is going to be quite a bit worse than if we get hit in a Cybertruck or GMC Sierra.
- saagarjha 9mo ago
  There are many things you can understand are a tragedy of the commons and yet decide to make a choice that is not optimal for yourself even if it makes you worse off.
- jutter 9mo ago
  [dead]
- qwerpy 9mo ago
  Would you rather share the road with a Cybertruck that's driving itself with all the cameras and sensors and collision avoidance features, or a Honda Civic being driven by a human who could be young/old/on their cell phone/fleeing police?

carlgreene 9mo ago

For real. I just assume that anyone who talks like that has never driven the car and has not used FSD in the past couple years. Say what you want about Elon, his politics, whatever, but the cars and technology are absolutely incredible.

breve 9mo ago
> but the cars and technology are absolutely incredible. Tesla is securing its status as a legacy EV manufacturer. They are the behind the EV technology curve these days. For example they don't charge as fast as other EVs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy46Ag0djjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAky0r8n5sk The Zeekr 7X charges at a peak of 415 kW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rb4U2CSYY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rb4U2CSYY0

fnordpiglet 9mo ago

To be fair stock price is not a great indicator of much. Sales are down YoY with no prospect of recovery. Stock price has no bearing on current operations unless they raise capital by selling equity. It’s also been the case that Tesla stock price has been disconnected from performance often. The amount of ill will he’s generated among his core market is enormous, and the tailwinds he had with green policy have been replace with significant head winds with an aggressively (and bizarrely) pro-pollution administration based on a retribution model than a technocratic model. This is especially bad for Tesla as musk actively sought retribution so there is no reason to believe this is going to go well for Tesla over the next few years. He dumped all over his customers to curry favor with someone that now hates him and has a history of actively seeking revenge - what a mess. As an owner of two Tesla and a frequent user of autopilot with FSD, I don’t believe we will be seeing a significant rollout in any but the easiest to travel areas. SF, LA, Seattle or the other places Waymo currently is either running or preparing to operate are much more challenging road environments than Austin, and Waymo is already fully autonomous with years of track record in these areas. There’s no chance robotaxi will overtake Waymo - I use them often, use FSD often. They aren’t comparable - Waymo is considerably more advanced and capable. Sorry man, I wished Tesla was going to win out, but by shifting focus to ever more bizarre efforts away from their core cars (when’s the last time a real X or S model refresh happened?) they lost the initiative. BYD and the other legion of Chinese EV are going to eat Tesla alive within 5 years. I’ve had the chance to ride in and drive many of the brands overseas and they are a fraction the price and about as good. It’s over.

cindyllm 9mo ago
[dead]
Ferret7446 9mo ago
Stock price is certainly a better indicator than any numbers coming out of China. The question isn't whether the numbers are fudged but how many times were they fudged, at each step in the reporting chain.

inkysigma 9mo ago

It's weird to me that when people talk about Tesla, the business, is doing poorly, the retort is citing the stock price as if that's somehow what the person is talking about and not going to be seen as disconnected from fundamentals by the person you're talking to. So many things were being used to justify the stock price have simply not materialized. For example, the idea that Dojo would be a lasting moat does not appear to be materially true. As a business, they've seen declining yearly revenues (2025 is expected to be lower overall) and declining sales on a YoY basis in a sector that has seen tremendous growth. The article we're on literally is how Tesla squandered their lead over BYD. Autopilot and FSD are neat (for some definition of neat) but have clear competitors with Waymo being far ahead in deployment. BYD has their own developing system that's not as good but it's not clear to be that FSD will be some kind of enduring advantage either given that parallel systems are also being developed.

dzhiurgis 9mo ago
If smartest analysts of wall street are leaving money on the table, go ahead, take it.
lawn 9mo ago
> It's weird to me that when people talk about Tesla, the business, is doing poorly, the retort is citing the stock price as if that's somehow what the person is talking about and not going to be seen as disconnected from fundamentals by the person you're talking to. Incidentally the same way people defend Bitcoin.
stogot 9mo ago
IBM stock price IS INCREDIBLE TOO until you realize it is financial engineering