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Yes, but that's the case for any company under any state. Do you believe that Apple is not under the US government's control just because they're allowed to cri

by KlayLay 9mo ago

Yes, but that's the case for any company under any state. Do you believe that Apple is not under the US government's control just because they're allowed to criticize them?

Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago
Apple can still fight against US government if they want. We are taking the example of the largest company in america tho so ofc they might want to take favour from govt so if govt requests them they will do something But this is because they are an extremely large company but on the other hand, there can be smaller companies in america who can actually be independent yet the same just isn't possible in china. Also even with things like apple, they don't really unlock computers for the govt. https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/ https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/ So in a way, yeah. Not sure about the current oligarchy / kiss-the-ring type of deal they might have but that seems a problem of america's authoritarianism and not the fault of the democratic model itself
Workaccount2 9mo ago
Apple quite publicly defied the FBI with encryption and won. Tim Cook didn't disappear either. Now ask Jack Ma about the time he even criticized regulations, much less defied them...
- mullingitover 9mo ago
  > and won. They didn't win, the phone was broken into with the help of a third party (so ultimately Apple actually did give the government a backdoor, unofficially) so the court case was mooted. Apple never actually defied the US legal system. > Now ask Jack Ma Ask ABC about their FCC license when they publish speech critical of the regime[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_Jimmy_Kimmel_Live https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_Jimmy_Kimmel_Liv...!
  - Workaccount2 9mo ago
    No, they won. They never put a backdoor in. Not sure how finding an exploit in software means the company is compliant. Microsoft would be criminally liable for untold damage if that was the case. Kimmels bosses were kissing the ring. But it's unlikely there was real threat. The courts have been shooting Trumps authoritarian dreams down left and right. China has no (legitimate) courts.
- KlayLay 9mo ago
  Believe it or not, that's the case I was thinking of when I asked, "just because they're allowed to criticize them?" A multi-national corporation like Apple having the freedom to criticize the US government doesn't mean that it has freedom from control, given that it's a US company. If Apple had similar criticisms during a much more critical moment (e.g., a war) or wanted to commit a critical act (e.g., transfer their chip design to be done primarily in China), they could very well find themselves subject to a clause in some vague, national security or espionage act. Jack Ma was criticizing China's strategy for minimizing risk in its financial system, essentially arguing for more risk that could harm ordinary people to benefit his company, Ant Group. Unlike the US, much of the financial sector in China is state-owned, so it makes sense that they would follow the state's line. The worst that happened to him is that he had to step away from roles in his companies and stay out of public image, which is very different to the image of being disappeared. Both of their companies are under their respective state's control. The only difference seems to be what you're willing to recognize as control, since I'm much more interested in what happens when push comes to shove.
  - Workaccount2 9mo ago
    If Trump tells Apple to put his face on everyone's lock screen, Apple laughs and says no. Trump can push but the courts will shoot it down. If Xi tells Xiaomi to put his face one every xiaomi phone, tomorrow everyone with a xiaomi phone wakes up to Xi. China is an authoritarian regime, through and through. America is an authoritarian regime if you just read reddit comments all day.
    - KlayLay 9mo ago
      The question is whether or not American companies like Apple are controlled by the US government. Do you genuinely believe that, just because you can go to a court, that you're somehow free of control? Whether or not the state is authoritarian doesn't change that. You must really have a distorted view on society to believe that companies can be free from their respective governments on the basis of freedom of speech, which is largely a western concept.

by KlayLay 9mo ago

Yes, but that's the case for any company under any state. Do you believe that Apple is not under the US government's control just because they're allowed to criticize them?

Imustaskforhelp 9mo ago

Apple can still fight against US government if they want. We are taking the example of the largest company in america tho so ofc they might want to take favour from govt so if govt requests them they will do something But this is because they are an extremely large company but on the other hand, there can be smaller companies in america who can actually be independent yet the same just isn't possible in china. Also even with things like apple, they don't really unlock computers for the govt. https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/ https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/ So in a way, yeah. Not sure about the current oligarchy / kiss-the-ring type of deal they might have but that seems a problem of america's authoritarianism and not the fault of the democratic model itself

Workaccount2 9mo ago

Apple quite publicly defied the FBI with encryption and won. Tim Cook didn't disappear either. Now ask Jack Ma about the time he even criticized regulations, much less defied them...

mullingitover 9mo ago
> and won. They didn't win, the phone was broken into with the help of a third party (so ultimately Apple actually did give the government a backdoor, unofficially) so the court case was mooted. Apple never actually defied the US legal system. > Now ask Jack Ma Ask ABC about their FCC license when they publish speech critical of the regime[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_Jimmy_Kimmel_Live https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_Jimmy_Kimmel_Liv...!
- Workaccount2 9mo ago
  No, they won. They never put a backdoor in. Not sure how finding an exploit in software means the company is compliant. Microsoft would be criminally liable for untold damage if that was the case. Kimmels bosses were kissing the ring. But it's unlikely there was real threat. The courts have been shooting Trumps authoritarian dreams down left and right. China has no (legitimate) courts.
KlayLay 9mo ago
Believe it or not, that's the case I was thinking of when I asked, "just because they're allowed to criticize them?" A multi-national corporation like Apple having the freedom to criticize the US government doesn't mean that it has freedom from control, given that it's a US company. If Apple had similar criticisms during a much more critical moment (e.g., a war) or wanted to commit a critical act (e.g., transfer their chip design to be done primarily in China), they could very well find themselves subject to a clause in some vague, national security or espionage act. Jack Ma was criticizing China's strategy for minimizing risk in its financial system, essentially arguing for more risk that could harm ordinary people to benefit his company, Ant Group. Unlike the US, much of the financial sector in China is state-owned, so it makes sense that they would follow the state's line. The worst that happened to him is that he had to step away from roles in his companies and stay out of public image, which is very different to the image of being disappeared. Both of their companies are under their respective state's control. The only difference seems to be what you're willing to recognize as control, since I'm much more interested in what happens when push comes to shove.
- Workaccount2 9mo ago
  If Trump tells Apple to put his face on everyone's lock screen, Apple laughs and says no. Trump can push but the courts will shoot it down. If Xi tells Xiaomi to put his face one every xiaomi phone, tomorrow everyone with a xiaomi phone wakes up to Xi. China is an authoritarian regime, through and through. America is an authoritarian regime if you just read reddit comments all day.
  - KlayLay 9mo ago
    The question is whether or not American companies like Apple are controlled by the US government. Do you genuinely believe that, just because you can go to a court, that you're somehow free of control? Whether or not the state is authoritarian doesn't change that. You must really have a distorted view on society to believe that companies can be free from their respective governments on the basis of freedom of speech, which is largely a western concept.