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On graphics: there is a threshold where realistic graphics make the difference. Not all games need to be that, but Ghost of Tsushima in GBA Pokemon style is no

On graphics: there is a threshold where realistic graphics make the difference. Not all games need to be that, but Ghost of Tsushima in GBA Pokemon style is not the same game at all. And is it badly designed ? I also don't think so. Same for many VR games which make immersion meaningful in itself. We can all come up with a litany of bad games, AAA or indie, but as long as there's a set of games fully pushing the envelope and bringing new things to the table, better hardware will be worth it IMHO.

Apocryphon 9mo ago
Sure, but would Ghosts of Tsushima be any less immersive with PS4 graphics? Even max PS3 graphics?
- makeitdouble 9mo ago
  Yes. The whole point is to convey details of an area you never lived in, of an actual place you never visited. I'd make the same argument for Half-Life Alyx or BioHazard, the visceral reaction you get from a highly detailed and textured world works at a different level than just "knowing" what you have in front of your eyes. Your brain is not filling the gaps, it is taking in the art of the creator.
  - Apocryphon 9mo ago
    Eh, eye of the beholder. It's made all the funnier that Ghosts of Tsushima has a Kurosawa Mode that converts all that detail into monochrome. RE 7 Biohazard was made for the PS4! And its VR version and Half-Life Alyx probably do require higher graphical fidelity, as VR games are not exactly the same thing as regular video games.
    - makeitdouble 9mo ago
      > VR games are not exactly the same thing as regular video games. That might be the fundamental divide, for that category of games I'm more on the VR camp and will settle for 2D only for convenience or availability. I see it with different expectations than games like Persona or Zelda (or GTA?) which could compete solely on the mechanics and a lot more, and I get the feeling you're comparing it more to these genres? Biohazard on PS4 was very meh to me, at that level I feel it could get down to Switch graphics to prioritize better game mechanics and more freedom of play. I never loved the clunkiness, as an action games it's pretty frustrating, and the VR game is even worse in gameplay quality. The immersiveness in VR is the only redeeming quality IMHO.
- throwaway613745 9mo ago
  Ghost of Tsushima already is a PS4 game???
  - makeitdouble 9mo ago
    Yes. Just to note, I was referring to the PC version, I don't know how much of a difference that makes.
bitwize 9mo ago
Daikatana in GBC style turned into a good game, lol.
PunchyHamster 9mo ago
I can't name one in last 5 that has been "pushing the envelope" that would actually wow me. And the ones that did, did it by artstyle, not sheer amount of polygons pushed to the screen. VR, sure, you want a lot of frames on 2 screens, that requires beef so the visual fidelity on same GPU will be worse than on screen, but other than that if anything graphical part of games have flatlined for me. Also, putting the money literally anywhere else gonna have better results game quality wise. I want better stories and more complex/interesting systems, not few more animated hairs
- makeitdouble 9mo ago
  > VR To note, cost and hardware availability is I think one half of the critical reasons people don't get into VR (other half being the bulkiness and puke ?). In a roundabout way, GPU melting games helped get better hardware at mainstream prices. Until crypto and AI happened. And now the Steam Frame faced with the RAM price situation. > 5 years I don't play it, but Infinite Nikki comes to mind, and the visuals are the core experience. I wonder how much a game like Arcknight Enfield taxes the player hardware, given they're pushing the 3D modelling side. I agree with you on the plateauing part, in that the gaming industry seems to have mostly shoved HDPI in the corner. It costs so much more to produce a game at that visual quality in the first place, and PC makers and benchmarks focus on FHD performance, so ROI is that lower on the marketing side. It kinda makes me sad, like being told "8-bit art is enough for images, we should focus on composition, how many Vermeer or DaVinci like painters do we expect anyway ?"
  - PunchyHamster 9mo ago
    > I don't play it, but Infinite Nikki comes to mind, and the visuals are the core experience. I wonder how much a game like Arcknight Enfield taxes the player hardware, given they're pushing the 3D modelling side. Me neither but recommended requirements on Steam are like.. RTX 2060, so 6 years old mid grade video card. We really don't need more power than we already have to make beautiful games. > It kinda makes me sad, like being told "8-bit art is enough for images, we should focus on composition, how many Vermeer or DaVinci like painters do we expect anyway ?" Except it isn't ? At this point more power is only really needed if you want to go hardcore into photorealism, and to actually use all that power you need massive budget just to produce all the assets at required quality. It's like saying "if only painters had even smaller brushes, we could get photographical quality paintings." Does it really make art that much better ?

Apocryphon 9mo ago

Sure, but would Ghosts of Tsushima be any less immersive with PS4 graphics? Even max PS3 graphics?

makeitdouble 9mo ago
Yes. The whole point is to convey details of an area you never lived in, of an actual place you never visited. I'd make the same argument for Half-Life Alyx or BioHazard, the visceral reaction you get from a highly detailed and textured world works at a different level than just "knowing" what you have in front of your eyes. Your brain is not filling the gaps, it is taking in the art of the creator.
- Apocryphon 9mo ago
  Eh, eye of the beholder. It's made all the funnier that Ghosts of Tsushima has a Kurosawa Mode that converts all that detail into monochrome. RE 7 Biohazard was made for the PS4! And its VR version and Half-Life Alyx probably do require higher graphical fidelity, as VR games are not exactly the same thing as regular video games.
  - makeitdouble 9mo ago
    > VR games are not exactly the same thing as regular video games. That might be the fundamental divide, for that category of games I'm more on the VR camp and will settle for 2D only for convenience or availability. I see it with different expectations than games like Persona or Zelda (or GTA?) which could compete solely on the mechanics and a lot more, and I get the feeling you're comparing it more to these genres? Biohazard on PS4 was very meh to me, at that level I feel it could get down to Switch graphics to prioritize better game mechanics and more freedom of play. I never loved the clunkiness, as an action games it's pretty frustrating, and the VR game is even worse in gameplay quality. The immersiveness in VR is the only redeeming quality IMHO.
throwaway613745 9mo ago
Ghost of Tsushima already is a PS4 game???
- makeitdouble 9mo ago
  Yes. Just to note, I was referring to the PC version, I don't know how much of a difference that makes.

bitwize 9mo ago

Daikatana in GBC style turned into a good game, lol.

PunchyHamster 9mo ago

I can't name one in last 5 that has been "pushing the envelope" that would actually wow me. And the ones that did, did it by artstyle, not sheer amount of polygons pushed to the screen. VR, sure, you want a lot of frames on 2 screens, that requires beef so the visual fidelity on same GPU will be worse than on screen, but other than that if anything graphical part of games have flatlined for me. Also, putting the money literally anywhere else gonna have better results game quality wise. I want better stories and more complex/interesting systems, not few more animated hairs

makeitdouble 9mo ago
> VR To note, cost and hardware availability is I think one half of the critical reasons people don't get into VR (other half being the bulkiness and puke ?). In a roundabout way, GPU melting games helped get better hardware at mainstream prices. Until crypto and AI happened. And now the Steam Frame faced with the RAM price situation. > 5 years I don't play it, but Infinite Nikki comes to mind, and the visuals are the core experience. I wonder how much a game like Arcknight Enfield taxes the player hardware, given they're pushing the 3D modelling side. I agree with you on the plateauing part, in that the gaming industry seems to have mostly shoved HDPI in the corner. It costs so much more to produce a game at that visual quality in the first place, and PC makers and benchmarks focus on FHD performance, so ROI is that lower on the marketing side. It kinda makes me sad, like being told "8-bit art is enough for images, we should focus on composition, how many Vermeer or DaVinci like painters do we expect anyway ?"
- PunchyHamster 9mo ago
  > I don't play it, but Infinite Nikki comes to mind, and the visuals are the core experience. I wonder how much a game like Arcknight Enfield taxes the player hardware, given they're pushing the 3D modelling side. Me neither but recommended requirements on Steam are like.. RTX 2060, so 6 years old mid grade video card. We really don't need more power than we already have to make beautiful games. > It kinda makes me sad, like being told "8-bit art is enough for images, we should focus on composition, how many Vermeer or DaVinci like painters do we expect anyway ?" Except it isn't ? At this point more power is only really needed if you want to go hardcore into photorealism, and to actually use all that power you need massive budget just to produce all the assets at required quality. It's like saying "if only painters had even smaller brushes, we could get photographical quality paintings." Does it really make art that much better ?