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1. Python was designed by testing syntax with novice users to see what they could adopt easily.[1] > 90% of current Python users weren’t born when it was create

1. Python was designed by testing syntax with novice users to see what they could adopt easily.[1] > 90% of current Python users weren’t born when it was created. They all had to learn, and Python is the easiest language to learn because Guido and his teammates, unlike $LANGUAGE_DESIGN_GOD, approach the problem as experimental scientists rather than auteurs. 2. Python is conceptually compact, dominated by hash tables with string keys. The initial leader in the ecosystem, Perl, is conceptually sprawling and difficult to reason about. 3. Python also took lessons from the Unix shell, a mature environment for accommodating beginners and experts. 4. Python had a formal process for integrating C modules from early on. 5. Python’s management has an elegant shearing layer structure, where ideas can diffuse in from anywhere. 6. $NEXT_GENERAL_PURPOSE_LANG (Ruby, Go) weren’t enough better to displace Python. Both were heavily influenced by Python’s syntax, but ignored the community-centric design process that had created that syntax in favor of We Know Best. 7. Speaking of open source entrepreneurialism, JavaScript has become a real rival thanks to the Web (and node), but it is handicapped by the inverse failure mode: where Go is dominated by a handful of Googlers, JavaScript was effectively unmanaged at the STDLIB level for a crucial decade, and now it can’t recover. (I’d also guess that having to write a module system that works well in the chaos that is Web clients and simultaneously the Unix world is a daunting design problem.) 8. Python got lucky that data science took off. [1] https://ospo.gwu.edu/python-wasnt-built-day-origin-story-worth-knowing https://ospo.gwu.edu/python-wasnt-built-day-origin-story-wor...

spenrose 9mo ago
I forgot two, er, three: 9. Python got lucky that its inevitable screwups (Python3) didn’t quite kill it. 10. Swift and Kotlin both define programming as serving the compiler (specifically LLVM) rather than serving the coder’s problem. (I haven’t discussed Rust so far since it isn’t attempting to compete with 98% of Python use cases, but if you squint you can see it as going one step further than Swift and Kotlin and in effect forcing the coder to be a sort of human compiler who thinks in types and memory management. This is not a criticism of Rust, BTW.) 0. And behind all of this is Moore’s Law and the demographic explosion of programmers. Python was an implicit, perhaps unconscious bet that if you served people thoughtfully, the tradeoffs with serving the needs of contemporary silicon wouldn’t matter as much.
- spenrose 9mo ago
  I can't stop thinking about this. WRT Perl specifically, it’s fascinating how the two competitors adopted Unix shell patterns. Python is handicapped to this day by not automagically snarfing up environment variables, etc. But Perl leaned hard into TECO-style gibberish and the meta-syntax that is regular expressions, confronting beginners with arbitrary complexity. It feels like Wall embraced the system administrator side of coding — the side that has an enormous capacity for tracking corner cases and managing impedance mismatches. Wall was trained, perhaps not coincidentally, as a linguist, a field where continent facts really matter. Guido, on the other hand, was an accomplished mathematician. (This is the Dwarf / Elf distinction from Cryptonomicon.)
  - eesmith 9mo ago
    Guido van Rossum was not an accomplished mathematician. He has a master's Degree in Mathematics and Computer Science, and got a bronze medal in the International Mathematical Olympiad, but the former is because that's where CS was taught, and the latter because he was a smart high school student. As he described it: "But after that first year [of college], it turned out that the real math I wasn’t particularly good at. And I think there were some great teachers at that university and some super cool topics being taught. And I couldn’t keep up. I remember something about a particular form of group theory. And I knew—and a few other students who were like, “Oh, you’ve got to go do graph theory, or group theory.” And I was like—it went way too fast. And I suddenly realized I didn’t have the skills to keep up with those topics. But in the meantime, starting almost from my first month I entered the math department, I had been learning to program because they had I think one of the first-year undergraduate courses was programming in Pascal." Quoting from 'Oral History of Guido van Rossum', https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102738719/search/collection:oral-histories--keyword:%20Guido%20van%20Rossum/ https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10273871...
    - spenrose 9mo ago
      Thank you for the correction. I should have said “trained”.
LexiMax 9mo ago
I feel like if #1 was done today, there is no way on god's green earth that whitespace would be used for code blocks. It is far and away the most common footgun novices run into when I'm answering questions about why their code doesn't work.
- zahlman 9mo ago
  > It is far and away the most common footgun novices run into when I'm answering questions about why their code doesn't work. It was, in my experience, before Python 3 clamped down on mixed spaces on tabs; before the `SyntaxError`s got better (for example the handling of `try` without `except`); and before VSCode got so popular (such that all the novices were using who-even-knows-what random editor and you had to figure out every time how they were actually producing the indentation, whether it does/can convert tabs to spaces). And, oddly enough, before LLMs. Not so much because they explain anything all that well, but because lazy clueless people now get correctly indented code generated in-place rather than copying and pasting from Stack Overflow and not having any clue how to make the pasted code line up properly. But now I far more often see people who are clueless enough that they can't distinguish the REPL from a command line ("why is `pip install ...` a syntax error?"), or are struggling with whatever is the latest attempt by the Python team to make Python easier to install and manage on Windows, or who seemingly can't wrap their head around the idea that Python has to know where on disk to look for the installed libraries (or why it won't work to just put everything in the system environment). And in terms of the language itself, probably the biggest stumbling blocks are things like command-query separation ("why can't I `foo.append(bar).append(baz)`?") and just using functions properly (which typically boils down to "why doesn't `return foo` let me refer to `foo` in the calling function?", but generally stated completely differently).
  - LexiMax 9mo ago
    Whitespace cleanliness is only part of the problem. The much bigger issue is the fact that the ending of a block is invisible. This leads to several problems: 1. It becomes much more difficult to tell beginners where the end of a block is, because the ending of the block isn't something you can describe verbally. You have to point to it instead. 2. Students who might be prone to using the wrong number of "}" or "end" tokens to close a block will instead un-indent the wrong number of times. It doesn't prevent the kinds of mistakes that mismatched parens tend to cause. 3. When closing a block, the thing you're trying to align a prior block with might not be on screen any longer. I don't know why, but I've seen more off-by-one spacing gaffes after the close of a nested block than I ever expected to see. That said, I don't doubt that Python arrived at the choice of whitespace blocks empirically. However, I highly suspect that the majority of the users learning how to program in the late 80's and early 90's were familiar with monospaced text, which was ever-present in most productivity applications of the day, and thus easier for them to reason about. And to be clear, I don't really care that much about Python's whitespace blocks. I don't like them, but I'm at the age where I feel like quibbling over minor syntax gaffes is beneath me, and Python is my top "swiss army knife" language when I need a job done quickly. My only point is that I feel like whitespace blocks are a relic of the time when they were developed, and I don't think they are as beginner friendly as advertised. EDIT: After stepping away from the post, I realized that in my perfect world, a beginner language would look a lot more like Lua than Python. Then I remembered how popular Roblox is, and how popular Garry's Mod was before that. Given the success of those platforms, there might be something to it.
jimbokun 9mo ago
Can you elaborate on Ruby explicitly ignoring the community centric design process? Ruby’s syntax is pretty accessible and powerful and Matz was explicit about having developer happiness as a design goal.

spenrose 9mo ago

I forgot two, er, three: 9. Python got lucky that its inevitable screwups (Python3) didn’t quite kill it. 10. Swift and Kotlin both define programming as serving the compiler (specifically LLVM) rather than serving the coder’s problem. (I haven’t discussed Rust so far since it isn’t attempting to compete with 98% of Python use cases, but if you squint you can see it as going one step further than Swift and Kotlin and in effect forcing the coder to be a sort of human compiler who thinks in types and memory management. This is not a criticism of Rust, BTW.) 0. And behind all of this is Moore’s Law and the demographic explosion of programmers. Python was an implicit, perhaps unconscious bet that if you served people thoughtfully, the tradeoffs with serving the needs of contemporary silicon wouldn’t matter as much.

spenrose 9mo ago
I can't stop thinking about this. WRT Perl specifically, it’s fascinating how the two competitors adopted Unix shell patterns. Python is handicapped to this day by not automagically snarfing up environment variables, etc. But Perl leaned hard into TECO-style gibberish and the meta-syntax that is regular expressions, confronting beginners with arbitrary complexity. It feels like Wall embraced the system administrator side of coding — the side that has an enormous capacity for tracking corner cases and managing impedance mismatches. Wall was trained, perhaps not coincidentally, as a linguist, a field where continent facts really matter. Guido, on the other hand, was an accomplished mathematician. (This is the Dwarf / Elf distinction from Cryptonomicon.)
- eesmith 9mo ago
  Guido van Rossum was not an accomplished mathematician. He has a master's Degree in Mathematics and Computer Science, and got a bronze medal in the International Mathematical Olympiad, but the former is because that's where CS was taught, and the latter because he was a smart high school student. As he described it: "But after that first year [of college], it turned out that the real math I wasn’t particularly good at. And I think there were some great teachers at that university and some super cool topics being taught. And I couldn’t keep up. I remember something about a particular form of group theory. And I knew—and a few other students who were like, “Oh, you’ve got to go do graph theory, or group theory.” And I was like—it went way too fast. And I suddenly realized I didn’t have the skills to keep up with those topics. But in the meantime, starting almost from my first month I entered the math department, I had been learning to program because they had I think one of the first-year undergraduate courses was programming in Pascal." Quoting from 'Oral History of Guido van Rossum', https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102738719/search/collection:oral-histories--keyword:%20Guido%20van%20Rossum/ https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10273871...
  - spenrose 9mo ago
    Thank you for the correction. I should have said “trained”.

LexiMax 9mo ago

I feel like if #1 was done today, there is no way on god's green earth that whitespace would be used for code blocks. It is far and away the most common footgun novices run into when I'm answering questions about why their code doesn't work.

zahlman 9mo ago
> It is far and away the most common footgun novices run into when I'm answering questions about why their code doesn't work. It was, in my experience, before Python 3 clamped down on mixed spaces on tabs; before the `SyntaxError`s got better (for example the handling of `try` without `except`); and before VSCode got so popular (such that all the novices were using who-even-knows-what random editor and you had to figure out every time how they were actually producing the indentation, whether it does/can convert tabs to spaces). And, oddly enough, before LLMs. Not so much because they explain anything all that well, but because lazy clueless people now get correctly indented code generated in-place rather than copying and pasting from Stack Overflow and not having any clue how to make the pasted code line up properly. But now I far more often see people who are clueless enough that they can't distinguish the REPL from a command line ("why is `pip install ...` a syntax error?"), or are struggling with whatever is the latest attempt by the Python team to make Python easier to install and manage on Windows, or who seemingly can't wrap their head around the idea that Python has to know where on disk to look for the installed libraries (or why it won't work to just put everything in the system environment). And in terms of the language itself, probably the biggest stumbling blocks are things like command-query separation ("why can't I `foo.append(bar).append(baz)`?") and just using functions properly (which typically boils down to "why doesn't `return foo` let me refer to `foo` in the calling function?", but generally stated completely differently).
- LexiMax 9mo ago
  Whitespace cleanliness is only part of the problem. The much bigger issue is the fact that the ending of a block is invisible. This leads to several problems: 1. It becomes much more difficult to tell beginners where the end of a block is, because the ending of the block isn't something you can describe verbally. You have to point to it instead. 2. Students who might be prone to using the wrong number of "}" or "end" tokens to close a block will instead un-indent the wrong number of times. It doesn't prevent the kinds of mistakes that mismatched parens tend to cause. 3. When closing a block, the thing you're trying to align a prior block with might not be on screen any longer. I don't know why, but I've seen more off-by-one spacing gaffes after the close of a nested block than I ever expected to see. That said, I don't doubt that Python arrived at the choice of whitespace blocks empirically. However, I highly suspect that the majority of the users learning how to program in the late 80's and early 90's were familiar with monospaced text, which was ever-present in most productivity applications of the day, and thus easier for them to reason about. And to be clear, I don't really care that much about Python's whitespace blocks. I don't like them, but I'm at the age where I feel like quibbling over minor syntax gaffes is beneath me, and Python is my top "swiss army knife" language when I need a job done quickly. My only point is that I feel like whitespace blocks are a relic of the time when they were developed, and I don't think they are as beginner friendly as advertised. EDIT: After stepping away from the post, I realized that in my perfect world, a beginner language would look a lot more like Lua than Python. Then I remembered how popular Roblox is, and how popular Garry's Mod was before that. Given the success of those platforms, there might be something to it.

jimbokun 9mo ago

Can you elaborate on Ruby explicitly ignoring the community centric design process? Ruby’s syntax is pretty accessible and powerful and Matz was explicit about having developer happiness as a design goal.