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Check out a demo of a similar tool we created (https://model-guessr.com/ https://model-guessr.com/) that was bot-gated by Roundtable Proof of Human. Happy to t

Check out a demo of a similar tool we created (https://model-guessr.com/ https://model-guessr.com/) that was bot-gated by Roundtable Proof of Human. Happy to talk more details about PoH (disclaimer: I'm a cofounder and this is my YC S23 company)

reliefcrew 9mo ago
Can you comment on the notion that Turnstile's primary goal isn't to keep bots out 100% but instead to slow them down to "human" speeds. Asking because as a dev I hate when sites don't allow bots... however can appreciate that automation should be rate-limited. IOW, isn't preventing bot access actually an anti-pattern since rate-limiting is sufficient? I see a lot of marketing which bashes Turnstile [detection] rates and tries to leverage this misunderstood nuance. And, it seems to be a dishonest point of contention but am willing to hear opposing arguments. Thanks.
- timshell 9mo ago
  Yup! It depends on your use case. Cloudflare is really good at network bot detection. Rate-limiting is super helpful here, for example during DDoS attacks. Our customers are a little different. They sometimes struggle with high-volume bot attacks (e.g. SMS toll fraud in ticketing marketplaces), but we specifically focus on online platforms that want to verify a human is on the other side of the screen. For example, survey pollsters and labor marketplaces want to stop a slow agent that can complete traditional CAPTCHA even if it's solving it a human speed
  - reliefcrew 9mo ago
    I see. I'll have to read the marketing more closely next time, lol. The cynic in me only notices the detection rate comparisons, which I'm sure the marketing folks don't mind much ;-)
    - timshell 9mo ago
      https://research.roundtable.ai/bot-benchmarking/ https://research.roundtable.ai/bot-benchmarking/ :)
      - reliefcrew 9mo ago
        > Finally, our evaluation did not involve active adversarial optimization. Good luck!

reliefcrew 9mo ago

Can you comment on the notion that Turnstile's primary goal isn't to keep bots out 100% but instead to slow them down to "human" speeds. Asking because as a dev I hate when sites don't allow bots... however can appreciate that automation should be rate-limited. IOW, isn't preventing bot access actually an anti-pattern since rate-limiting is sufficient? I see a lot of marketing which bashes Turnstile [detection] rates and tries to leverage this misunderstood nuance. And, it seems to be a dishonest point of contention but am willing to hear opposing arguments. Thanks.

timshell 9mo ago
Yup! It depends on your use case. Cloudflare is really good at network bot detection. Rate-limiting is super helpful here, for example during DDoS attacks. Our customers are a little different. They sometimes struggle with high-volume bot attacks (e.g. SMS toll fraud in ticketing marketplaces), but we specifically focus on online platforms that want to verify a human is on the other side of the screen. For example, survey pollsters and labor marketplaces want to stop a slow agent that can complete traditional CAPTCHA even if it's solving it a human speed
- reliefcrew 9mo ago
  I see. I'll have to read the marketing more closely next time, lol. The cynic in me only notices the detection rate comparisons, which I'm sure the marketing folks don't mind much ;-)
  - timshell 9mo ago
    https://research.roundtable.ai/bot-benchmarking/ https://research.roundtable.ai/bot-benchmarking/ :)
    - reliefcrew 9mo ago
      > Finally, our evaluation did not involve active adversarial optimization. Good luck!