6 ms·

There's just no path to home ownership in the DC area for the fed career path after the ZIRP era. A capable person would have to be insane or desperate given t

by mgrat 9mo ago

There's just no path to home ownership in the DC area for the fed career path after the ZIRP era. A capable person would have to be insane or desperate given the economics alone.

mothballed 9mo ago
DC has the highest per capita income of anywhere in the US (vs other states/territories), so when you realize federal workers are producing the most value for America the economics are at least a little better. If you look at relative economic slackers like workers of NYC and the private industry where less value is per capita created, it's a bit rougher.
- ethbr1 9mo ago
  What does this have to do with the price of DC housing and federal employee salaries' ability to purchase it?
  - mothballed 9mo ago
    Lower salaries at the same home prices would make it even more difficult. This is what we see in NYC, for instance. DC has some of the highest home prices but also the highest incomes.
    - alistairSH 9mo ago
      But Feds aren’t the ones earning those big salaries. They make ok money, but an engineering manager in the DC suburbs earns more.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- square_usual 9mo ago
  > DC has the highest per capita income of anywhere in the US This isn't from the Federal workers; it's from people working in contracting for the Feds or other similar roles.
  - mothballed 9mo ago
    Googling average Federal worker income in DC, every number I came up with was the above the average for DC, and DC is higher than every other state/territory. I find nothing supporting your assertion but plenty opposing it. Feds are not only pulling it up, but the biggest group of people doing so.
    - Den_VR 9mo ago
      There are a lot of old feds that can afford the area because of how it was priced 25-40 years ago. That’s how stable some fed jobs and careers were. Now, talking to a barista in DC and the solution is 4-5 roommates. Not unfamiliar to those in the bay area, but less upside.
      - DANmode 9mo ago
        Less upside…unless your goal is to mix it up with politics, vs the tech machine. Not everyone is you, us.
    - acdha 9mo ago
      One thing to remember is that federal workers tend to be older because most agencies have been encouraged to hire contractors for decades. That skews averages up towards the mid-career managers, which will seem high if you compare it to the entire job market but if you only compare them with similar private sector employees who have comparable experience and skills they’re underpaid.
    - square_usual 9mo ago
      Yeah, it's marginally above average for DC, but that doesn't mean they're "raking it in". The average (which is a bad metric for income) is dragged up by the wealthy in DC balancing out the poor in DC, not hordes of Federal Workers (most of whom live outside DC in Maryland/Virginia, FWIW) making $120k.
      - mothballed 9mo ago
- Centigonal 9mo ago
  This is a distorted comparison and you know it. DC in unique among US states and territories in that it encompasses a major metropolitan area with no rural regions. In this comparison, DC also leads the country in population density, average building height, public transit usage, latte consumption, and any other correlate of living in a city. If you compare DC against other major metropolitan statistical areas, the leadership disappears -- see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol...
  - mothballed 9mo ago
    >If you compare DC against other major metropolitan statistical areas, the leadership disappears -- see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol... No it doesn't, not according to the linked data you're proposing. I sorted by per-capita income of MSAs on the second table of that page, it shows DC MSA blowing the other metropolitan areas away. Might not still be accurate as that's a 2010 census, but you're the one insisting on it. Looks like you're the one, distorting your own citations, mate and you "know it." Methinks this a case of psychological concept known as 'projection'.
    - Centigonal 9mo ago
      I thought you had to realize that comparing DC to a state like California wasn't going to be an apples-to-apples comparison, which is why I wrote, "and you know it." I'm sorry for making assumptions. You're also right, I was sloppy with my citation. I looked into the source data, and I believe Wikipedia's second table may be wrong here. Here is B19301 from the 2010 census. The Bridgeport MSA is first: https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT5YSPT2010.B19301?q=b19301&g=010XX00US$31000M1&tp=true https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT5YSPT2010.B19301?q=b19301... Unfortunately, the table on Wikipedia is uncited (beyond the 2010 census) and was added by an anonymous IP address editor, so I don't know how they got their numbers. I'll double check my work and update the article if I don't find anything else. Generally, though, my point is that if you compare the states and DC, you'll find that DC is an outlier on a lot of dimensions. If you compare the DC metro area with other MSAs, a lot of that exceptionalism goes away.

by mgrat 9mo ago

There's just no path to home ownership in the DC area for the fed career path after the ZIRP era. A capable person would have to be insane or desperate given the economics alone.

mothballed 9mo ago

DC has the highest per capita income of anywhere in the US (vs other states/territories), so when you realize federal workers are producing the most value for America the economics are at least a little better. If you look at relative economic slackers like workers of NYC and the private industry where less value is per capita created, it's a bit rougher.

ethbr1 9mo ago
What does this have to do with the price of DC housing and federal employee salaries' ability to purchase it?
- mothballed 9mo ago
  Lower salaries at the same home prices would make it even more difficult. This is what we see in NYC, for instance. DC has some of the highest home prices but also the highest incomes.
  - alistairSH 9mo ago
    But Feds aren’t the ones earning those big salaries. They make ok money, but an engineering manager in the DC suburbs earns more.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
square_usual 9mo ago
> DC has the highest per capita income of anywhere in the US This isn't from the Federal workers; it's from people working in contracting for the Feds or other similar roles.
- mothballed 9mo ago
  Googling average Federal worker income in DC, every number I came up with was the above the average for DC, and DC is higher than every other state/territory. I find nothing supporting your assertion but plenty opposing it. Feds are not only pulling it up, but the biggest group of people doing so.
  - Den_VR 9mo ago
    There are a lot of old feds that can afford the area because of how it was priced 25-40 years ago. That’s how stable some fed jobs and careers were. Now, talking to a barista in DC and the solution is 4-5 roommates. Not unfamiliar to those in the bay area, but less upside.
    - DANmode 9mo ago
      Less upside…unless your goal is to mix it up with politics, vs the tech machine. Not everyone is you, us.
  - acdha 9mo ago
    One thing to remember is that federal workers tend to be older because most agencies have been encouraged to hire contractors for decades. That skews averages up towards the mid-career managers, which will seem high if you compare it to the entire job market but if you only compare them with similar private sector employees who have comparable experience and skills they’re underpaid.
  - square_usual 9mo ago
    Yeah, it's marginally above average for DC, but that doesn't mean they're "raking it in". The average (which is a bad metric for income) is dragged up by the wealthy in DC balancing out the poor in DC, not hordes of Federal Workers (most of whom live outside DC in Maryland/Virginia, FWIW) making $120k.
    - mothballed 9mo ago
Centigonal 9mo ago
This is a distorted comparison and you know it. DC in unique among US states and territories in that it encompasses a major metropolitan area with no rural regions. In this comparison, DC also leads the country in population density, average building height, public transit usage, latte consumption, and any other correlate of living in a city. If you compare DC against other major metropolitan statistical areas, the leadership disappears -- see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas_by_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol...
- mothballed 9mo ago
  >If you compare DC against other major metropolitan statistical areas, the leadership disappears -- see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropol... No it doesn't, not according to the linked data you're proposing. I sorted by per-capita income of MSAs on the second table of that page, it shows DC MSA blowing the other metropolitan areas away. Might not still be accurate as that's a 2010 census, but you're the one insisting on it. Looks like you're the one, distorting your own citations, mate and you "know it." Methinks this a case of psychological concept known as 'projection'.
  - Centigonal 9mo ago
    I thought you had to realize that comparing DC to a state like California wasn't going to be an apples-to-apples comparison, which is why I wrote, "and you know it." I'm sorry for making assumptions. You're also right, I was sloppy with my citation. I looked into the source data, and I believe Wikipedia's second table may be wrong here. Here is B19301 from the 2010 census. The Bridgeport MSA is first: https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT5YSPT2010.B19301?q=b19301&g=010XX00US$31000M1&tp=true https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT5YSPT2010.B19301?q=b19301... Unfortunately, the table on Wikipedia is uncited (beyond the 2010 census) and was added by an anonymous IP address editor, so I don't know how they got their numbers. I'll double check my work and update the article if I don't find anything else. Generally, though, my point is that if you compare the states and DC, you'll find that DC is an outlier on a lot of dimensions. If you compare the DC metro area with other MSAs, a lot of that exceptionalism goes away.