6 ms·

You cite from 1929? There are many many citations, and often contradictory ones. He certainly changed his opinion during his lifetime. My source is a book (he

by lst 18y ago

You cite from 1929? There are many many citations, and often contradictory ones. He certainly changed his opinion during his lifetime. My source is a book (here in Europe, from 2008, not english). If you google a bit, you can find any kind of contradictory stuff, so internet and truth are not always friends (and we all know this).

gravitycop 18y ago
>> Source? > My source is a book What is the name? Who is the author?
- lst 18y ago
  Do you know Italian? If yes, it's a book I'd recommend to everybody: Author: Antonio Socci (a really good and meticulous italian journalist) Name: "Indagine su Gesù" It's a plain scientific research about the life of Jesus (with many many citations from every direction, including many atheists). The book sells very well these days...
  - lst 18y ago
    ...and sorry for this annotation: The US certainly suffers 'superficiality' more than any other country. If you want to find really scientific stuff about religion, you often need to go back to good old Europe...
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    Author: Antonio Socci Name: "Indagine su Gesù" Thank you. Do you know Italian? No. I know Google Translate. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpaparatzinger2-blograffaella.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F11%2Fcaccia-delle-orme-razionali-di-ges-il.html&sl=it&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpaparat... Socci continues in this introductory chapter showing the positions of the greatest contemporary scientists, from Einstein to Hawking, by scholars of the Big Bang to those of DNA: all agree that the most reasonable answer to the mystery and the great dell'infinitamente 'infinitely small, as well as in front of the surprise at the amazing complexity of even the most minute living organism, is to admit a Creator. In short, something we call God But if science and reason - more and more, contrary to what one wants to believe - leads to the recognition of the existence of a God, the more dense is the enigma if we try to go down ' existence the essence. Could you please provide the evidence (quotes, etc.) that Socci cites?
    - lst 18y ago
      OK, in the first chapter of the book (page 19), there is this paragraph (I'm not good in translating to English, but I'll try): "Einstein said that the natural laws are revealing such a superior reason, that all of human thinking and ordering are only an insignificant reflection, compared to them." The next paragraph explains that Flew has been influenced decisively by the opinion of Einstein. It informs that many people said Einstein to be atheist or spinozistic pantheist. Then it cites Einstein again: "I'm no atheist, and I don't think that I could define myself as pantheist. We are in the situation of a child which enters a huge library, full of books written in many different languages. The child knows that someone must have written these books, but doesn't know how. And it doesn't know the languages the books are written in. The child suspects being a mysterious order in the disposition of the books, but doesn't know which. This seems to me the human position, even of the most intelligent ones, in front of God..." (there follow some other sentences, but this should already be enough). Happy now? The book is full of citations and annotations (they are counted, and the last one has the number 529). The author collected the material for the book in several years, and he's a really meticulous writer, I know him quite well.
      - gravitycop 18y ago
        in the first chapter of the book (page 19), there is this paragraph [...] "Einstein said that the natural laws are revealing such a superior reason, that all of human thinking and ordering are only an insignificant reflection, compared to them." Thank you. I included the actual Einstein quote, which is taken from his book The World as I See It, in my other reply: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462856 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462856 Here it is, again: But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. The quoted text appears in Einstein's book immediately after the paragraph in which Einstein states that belief in God is naive and childish. Einstein's book is online at Google Books. This link leads directly to the page with the quote: http://books.google.com/books?id=JFXWosy8ywYC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=einstein+world+as+i+see+it+utterly+insignificant&source=web&ots=dKeiZyk1OK&sig=hkkIxiuST_h02p7AyhYbWRODIJI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result http://books.google.com/books?id=JFXWosy8ywYC&pg=PA38&#3...
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    Here is, apparently, Antonio Socci's blog: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fnum%3D20%26hl%3Den%26q%3Dsocci%2Bhawking%2Beinstein%2Bdio&sl=it&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goo... [Original Italian text sentences alternating with translated English sentences:] Nel microscopico la grandezza della carica dell’elettrone ei rapporti col protone: “i valori di questi numeri” scrive Hawking “sembrano essere stati esattamente coordinati per rendere possibile lo sviluppo della vita”. In the microscopic size of the charge of electronics and proton relations with "the values of these numbers," Hawking writes, "seem to have been exactly coordinated to enable the development of life." E poi la velocità di espansione dell’universo: se un secondo dopo il Big Bang fosse stata un pochino superiore o appena inferiore sarebbe accaduta la catastrofe. And then the speed of expansion of the universe: if a second after the Big Bang had been slightly higher or lower would be just the disaster happened. Diceva Albert Einstein che nelle leggi della natura “si rivela una ragione così superiore che tutta la razionalità del pensiero e degli ordinamenti umani è al confronto un riflesso assolutamente insignificante”. Albert Einstein said that in the laws of nature "is one reason so superior that all rational thought and human systems is a reflection of a comparison is absolutely insignificant." The rest of the blogpost is standard "the world is too perfect to be of natural origin" ID stuff. Are the quotes above what were in the book (Indagine su Gesù) regarding Einstein's and Hawking's alleged beliefs in God? Apparently, the original Einstein quote in English was: http://www.google.com/search?q=einstein+%22utterly+insignificant+reflection%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=einstein+%22utterly+insignifi... But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This page http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/einstein_religion.html http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/einstein_religion.html says the quote is from: Albert Einstein, The World as I See It, Secaucus, New Jersey: The Citadel Press, 1999, pp. 24-29. That page includes the book's preceding 11 paragraphs, in which Einstein states that belief in God is naive and childish.

by lst 18y ago

gravitycop 18y ago

>> Source? > My source is a book What is the name? Who is the author?

lst 18y ago
Do you know Italian? If yes, it's a book I'd recommend to everybody: Author: Antonio Socci (a really good and meticulous italian journalist) Name: "Indagine su Gesù" It's a plain scientific research about the life of Jesus (with many many citations from every direction, including many atheists). The book sells very well these days...
- lst 18y ago
  ...and sorry for this annotation: The US certainly suffers 'superficiality' more than any other country. If you want to find really scientific stuff about religion, you often need to go back to good old Europe...
- gravitycop 18y ago
  Author: Antonio Socci Name: "Indagine su Gesù" Thank you. Do you know Italian? No. I know Google Translate. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpaparatzinger2-blograffaella.blogspot.com%2F2008%2F11%2Fcaccia-delle-orme-razionali-di-ges-il.html&sl=it&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpaparat... Socci continues in this introductory chapter showing the positions of the greatest contemporary scientists, from Einstein to Hawking, by scholars of the Big Bang to those of DNA: all agree that the most reasonable answer to the mystery and the great dell'infinitamente 'infinitely small, as well as in front of the surprise at the amazing complexity of even the most minute living organism, is to admit a Creator. In short, something we call God But if science and reason - more and more, contrary to what one wants to believe - leads to the recognition of the existence of a God, the more dense is the enigma if we try to go down ' existence the essence. Could you please provide the evidence (quotes, etc.) that Socci cites?
  - lst 18y ago
    OK, in the first chapter of the book (page 19), there is this paragraph (I'm not good in translating to English, but I'll try): "Einstein said that the natural laws are revealing such a superior reason, that all of human thinking and ordering are only an insignificant reflection, compared to them." The next paragraph explains that Flew has been influenced decisively by the opinion of Einstein. It informs that many people said Einstein to be atheist or spinozistic pantheist. Then it cites Einstein again: "I'm no atheist, and I don't think that I could define myself as pantheist. We are in the situation of a child which enters a huge library, full of books written in many different languages. The child knows that someone must have written these books, but doesn't know how. And it doesn't know the languages the books are written in. The child suspects being a mysterious order in the disposition of the books, but doesn't know which. This seems to me the human position, even of the most intelligent ones, in front of God..." (there follow some other sentences, but this should already be enough). Happy now? The book is full of citations and annotations (they are counted, and the last one has the number 529). The author collected the material for the book in several years, and he's a really meticulous writer, I know him quite well.
    - gravitycop 18y ago
      in the first chapter of the book (page 19), there is this paragraph [...] "Einstein said that the natural laws are revealing such a superior reason, that all of human thinking and ordering are only an insignificant reflection, compared to them." Thank you. I included the actual Einstein quote, which is taken from his book The World as I See It, in my other reply: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462856 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=462856 Here it is, again: But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. The quoted text appears in Einstein's book immediately after the paragraph in which Einstein states that belief in God is naive and childish. Einstein's book is online at Google Books. This link leads directly to the page with the quote: http://books.google.com/books?id=JFXWosy8ywYC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=einstein+world+as+i+see+it+utterly+insignificant&source=web&ots=dKeiZyk1OK&sig=hkkIxiuST_h02p7AyhYbWRODIJI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result http://books.google.com/books?id=JFXWosy8ywYC&pg=PA38&#3...
- gravitycop 18y ago
  Here is, apparently, Antonio Socci's blog: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fnum%3D20%26hl%3Den%26q%3Dsocci%2Bhawking%2Beinstein%2Bdio&sl=it&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goo... [Original Italian text sentences alternating with translated English sentences:] Nel microscopico la grandezza della carica dell’elettrone ei rapporti col protone: “i valori di questi numeri” scrive Hawking “sembrano essere stati esattamente coordinati per rendere possibile lo sviluppo della vita”. In the microscopic size of the charge of electronics and proton relations with "the values of these numbers," Hawking writes, "seem to have been exactly coordinated to enable the development of life." E poi la velocità di espansione dell’universo: se un secondo dopo il Big Bang fosse stata un pochino superiore o appena inferiore sarebbe accaduta la catastrofe. And then the speed of expansion of the universe: if a second after the Big Bang had been slightly higher or lower would be just the disaster happened. Diceva Albert Einstein che nelle leggi della natura “si rivela una ragione così superiore che tutta la razionalità del pensiero e degli ordinamenti umani è al confronto un riflesso assolutamente insignificante”. Albert Einstein said that in the laws of nature "is one reason so superior that all rational thought and human systems is a reflection of a comparison is absolutely insignificant." The rest of the blogpost is standard "the world is too perfect to be of natural origin" ID stuff. Are the quotes above what were in the book (Indagine su Gesù) regarding Einstein's and Hawking's alleged beliefs in God? Apparently, the original Einstein quote in English was: http://www.google.com/search?q=einstein+%22utterly+insignificant+reflection%22 http://www.google.com/search?q=einstein+%22utterly+insignifi... But the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This page http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/einstein_religion.html http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/einstein_religion.html says the quote is from: Albert Einstein, The World as I See It, Secaucus, New Jersey: The Citadel Press, 1999, pp. 24-29. That page includes the book's preceding 11 paragraphs, in which Einstein states that belief in God is naive and childish.