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My understanding is that there are three mobile networks in North Korea: the normal one used by the citizens (they have smartphones made specifically for North

My understanding is that there are three mobile networks in North Korea: the normal one used by the citizens (they have smartphones made specifically for North Korea), one used by the government/military and one for tourists (requires a local SIM card only available in a specific hotel in Pyongyang). The last one is connected to the internet and this is why you can see (or at least before the pandemic could see) Instagram posts from North Korea. I have no idea if this information is still or ever was completely true though. There's a somewhat dated but very interesting AMA on Reddit by an American teaching computer science in Pyongyang: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ucl11/iama_american_who_spent_the_fall_teaching/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ucl11/iama_american_... Reading about the internet knowledge possessed by North Korean students, I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking.

tehjoker 9mo ago
[flagged]
- bigfishrunning 9mo ago
  How cunning and evil it is that America funded the internet and then allowed it to spread around the world. If you're worried about "absolute control over digital systems", notice how many standards get published describing how those digital systems work -- you're welcome to reimplement them if you'd like more control.
  - tehjoker 9mo ago
    “allowed” is doing a hell of a lot of work for monopoly capitalism backed by us state diplomacy you may want to read this book about the military history of the internet originating in counter insurgency strategy in vietnam. https://www.amazon.com/Surveillance-Valley-Military-History-Internet/dp/1610398025 https://www.amazon.com/Surveillance-Valley-Military-History-... another way to look at american internet penetration is as “radio free asia dot com”
  - lawlessone 9mo ago
    The Roman Empire built lots of roads wherever they went and the British Empire built lots of rail networks.
    - nephihaha 9mo ago
      The Roman Empire merely improved roads in many places. Gaul already had a road system, and the Greek and Egyptian spheres did too.
      - lawlessone 9mo ago
        >The Roman Empire merely improved roads in many places. why did they invest in those roads? They weren't a charity.
        nephihaha 9mo ago
        So that they could move troops and goods from one place to another.
        lawlessone 9mo ago
        Yes, and more specifically so they could move resources back to Rome.
        AngryData 9mo ago
        Rome was entirely reliant upon the looting and expansion of the empire to support them. Without building up those roads Rome would have starved and fallen apart.
        lawlessone 9mo ago
        That's my point :-) , people in the thread are acting like their hegemony enablement technology is a selfless gift.
      - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago
NedF 9mo ago
[dead]
foota 9mo ago
Re: "I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking." I sort of suspect this is just the result of a nation state that is willing to be a pariah. That is, I think nearly any large state could do it if they didn't mind burning bridges.
- louthy 9mo ago
  It’s not just that they don’t care about being a pariah state, it’s a literal fund raising exercise, unlike most other state sanctioned hacking.
- ipdashc 9mo ago
  This is my assumption as well. In general it seems like hacking becomes a lot easier (still not easy of course, just easier) when you have no fear of getting caught or going to jail. Does anyone remember LAPSUS$ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsus$ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsus$ from a while back? It was reported for a while that it was largely made up of teenagers, and it seems two did get caught. I recall their whole MO being brazen social engineering/using stolen credentials in a way that got them caught pretty quickly, but also got results fast.
- Atlas667 9mo ago
  "Pariah", they've had the longest embargo on earth (which has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths), they had 90% of their whole countries infrastructure bombed by the US, and the Korean war has been called a genocide in the North by many scholars. The world doesnt make sense if you ignore history. They probably hack for the same reason the west does it: attack/defense and money.
  - joshfraser 9mo ago
    What other options do they have? They've been sanctioned to the point where they have few options left but to turn to crime.
    - lysace 9mo ago
seized 9mo ago
Probably helps that the stance is likely "Hack this target or your family dies". That's always pretty uhhhh motivational.
- engineer_22 9mo ago
  Maybe they hire international talent.
  - cmwelsh 9mo ago
    Hire is not always the correct word. There is evidence they acquire international talent without consent.
- AngryData 9mo ago
  Why would they need such incentives? All they gotta do is give them a decent wage and they will be happy, which in North Korea is a paltry sum. Its not like regular North Koreans are traveling around the world, they couldn't afford it even without any other restrictions, so they have zero risk of arrest or punishment from other nations. If I told you today that I will pay you a million dollars to go fuck around with some North Korean servers, and doing it completely anonymously with the full protection and sanction of your government, would you say no? I think you may have some unrealistic views on how North Korea operates internally. 99% of their population lives completely normal lives and has zero extra interactions with the government beyond basic grunt military service which is common across much of the world, and paperwork for licensing, permits, and taxes. We only see the worst possible views of North Korea from the outside, slathered with thick layers of additional propaganda on top of it.
  - kakacik 9mo ago
    Completely normal lives may be stretching your speech a bit too far. They provably had hundreds of thousands of deaths in famines when surrounding countries thrived, they have absolutely horrendous concentration camps where people are frequently beaten to death for small infractions and whole families are sent there, including small children (who also get beaten to death by their 'teachers'). If you consider numerous reports of people that managed to barely escape and report this consistently in the west as pure propaganda, thats... your paranoid mindset. Sometimes people and regimes are simply evil, 21st century is in no way immune to that.
mmsc 9mo ago
>one for tourists (requires a local SIM card only available in a specific hotel in Pyongyang). I do not think that exists. I imagine the diplomats and other foreigners living there will have this, though. When I was there two times (in Pyongyang, and in villages in the north east & Rason) any access to the outside world was prohibited via a network other than telephone (I could make outgoing phone calls via the hotel). Even traveling very close to the border (which they use jammers to block outside connections), my guides were annoyed when they saw I was trying to connect to the Chinese network from my phone. The only place I saw any access "to the outside world" was in Rason (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rason_Special_Economic_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rason_Special_Economic_Zone), where one of the casinos had a computer which could be used to access the internet (through the Chinese GFW, of course).
piokoch 9mo ago
"I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking" This sentiment is probably overblown. The fact that they are effectively robbing people to earn some money for their pathetic regime means only that they are on the level of nowadays internet scammers. They are good at that too. Spending enough money (and they spend a lot - 26 million people work only for this) one can train people to do this or hire people to do this for them.

tehjoker 9mo ago

[flagged]

bigfishrunning 9mo ago
How cunning and evil it is that America funded the internet and then allowed it to spread around the world. If you're worried about "absolute control over digital systems", notice how many standards get published describing how those digital systems work -- you're welcome to reimplement them if you'd like more control.
- tehjoker 9mo ago
  “allowed” is doing a hell of a lot of work for monopoly capitalism backed by us state diplomacy you may want to read this book about the military history of the internet originating in counter insurgency strategy in vietnam. https://www.amazon.com/Surveillance-Valley-Military-History-Internet/dp/1610398025 https://www.amazon.com/Surveillance-Valley-Military-History-... another way to look at american internet penetration is as “radio free asia dot com”
- lawlessone 9mo ago
  The Roman Empire built lots of roads wherever they went and the British Empire built lots of rail networks.
  - nephihaha 9mo ago
    The Roman Empire merely improved roads in many places. Gaul already had a road system, and the Greek and Egyptian spheres did too.
    - lawlessone 9mo ago
      >The Roman Empire merely improved roads in many places. why did they invest in those roads? They weren't a charity.
      - nephihaha 9mo ago
        So that they could move troops and goods from one place to another.
        lawlessone 9mo ago
        Yes, and more specifically so they could move resources back to Rome.
      - AngryData 9mo ago
        Rome was entirely reliant upon the looting and expansion of the empire to support them. Without building up those roads Rome would have starved and fallen apart.
        lawlessone 9mo ago
        That's my point :-) , people in the thread are acting like their hegemony enablement technology is a selfless gift.
    - JumpCrisscross 9mo ago

NedF 9mo ago

[dead]

foota 9mo ago

Re: "I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking." I sort of suspect this is just the result of a nation state that is willing to be a pariah. That is, I think nearly any large state could do it if they didn't mind burning bridges.

louthy 9mo ago
It’s not just that they don’t care about being a pariah state, it’s a literal fund raising exercise, unlike most other state sanctioned hacking.
ipdashc 9mo ago
This is my assumption as well. In general it seems like hacking becomes a lot easier (still not easy of course, just easier) when you have no fear of getting caught or going to jail. Does anyone remember LAPSUS$ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsus$ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsus$ from a while back? It was reported for a while that it was largely made up of teenagers, and it seems two did get caught. I recall their whole MO being brazen social engineering/using stolen credentials in a way that got them caught pretty quickly, but also got results fast.
Atlas667 9mo ago
"Pariah", they've had the longest embargo on earth (which has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths), they had 90% of their whole countries infrastructure bombed by the US, and the Korean war has been called a genocide in the North by many scholars. The world doesnt make sense if you ignore history. They probably hack for the same reason the west does it: attack/defense and money.
- joshfraser 9mo ago
  What other options do they have? They've been sanctioned to the point where they have few options left but to turn to crime.
  - lysace 9mo ago

seized 9mo ago

Probably helps that the stance is likely "Hack this target or your family dies". That's always pretty uhhhh motivational.

engineer_22 9mo ago
Maybe they hire international talent.
- cmwelsh 9mo ago
  Hire is not always the correct word. There is evidence they acquire international talent without consent.
AngryData 9mo ago
Why would they need such incentives? All they gotta do is give them a decent wage and they will be happy, which in North Korea is a paltry sum. Its not like regular North Koreans are traveling around the world, they couldn't afford it even without any other restrictions, so they have zero risk of arrest or punishment from other nations. If I told you today that I will pay you a million dollars to go fuck around with some North Korean servers, and doing it completely anonymously with the full protection and sanction of your government, would you say no? I think you may have some unrealistic views on how North Korea operates internally. 99% of their population lives completely normal lives and has zero extra interactions with the government beyond basic grunt military service which is common across much of the world, and paperwork for licensing, permits, and taxes. We only see the worst possible views of North Korea from the outside, slathered with thick layers of additional propaganda on top of it.
- kakacik 9mo ago
  Completely normal lives may be stretching your speech a bit too far. They provably had hundreds of thousands of deaths in famines when surrounding countries thrived, they have absolutely horrendous concentration camps where people are frequently beaten to death for small infractions and whole families are sent there, including small children (who also get beaten to death by their 'teachers'). If you consider numerous reports of people that managed to barely escape and report this consistently in the west as pure propaganda, thats... your paranoid mindset. Sometimes people and regimes are simply evil, 21st century is in no way immune to that.

mmsc 9mo ago

>one for tourists (requires a local SIM card only available in a specific hotel in Pyongyang). I do not think that exists. I imagine the diplomats and other foreigners living there will have this, though. When I was there two times (in Pyongyang, and in villages in the north east & Rason) any access to the outside world was prohibited via a network other than telephone (I could make outgoing phone calls via the hotel). Even traveling very close to the border (which they use jammers to block outside connections), my guides were annoyed when they saw I was trying to connect to the Chinese network from my phone. The only place I saw any access "to the outside world" was in Rason (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rason_Special_Economic_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rason_Special_Economic_Zone), where one of the casinos had a computer which could be used to access the internet (through the Chinese GFW, of course).

piokoch 9mo ago

"I'm always surprised how they supposedly also manage to be some of the most cunning and evil actors when it comes to hacking" This sentiment is probably overblown. The fact that they are effectively robbing people to earn some money for their pathetic regime means only that they are on the level of nowadays internet scammers. They are good at that too. Spending enough money (and they spend a lot - 26 million people work only for this) one can train people to do this or hire people to do this for them.