5 ms·

Totally agree. However, this only works in a high trust society, which we no longer have.

by bequanna 10mo ago

balamatom 10mo ago
While in a low trust society, which you obviously already have, people are most productive when they're at perpetual risk of starvation.
- linksnapzz 10mo ago
  "productive"
  - balamatom 10mo ago
    Simplest way to increase total absolute output is always to stop providing intake. Obviously, this fails almost immediately; operative word "almost". Definition of "almost": longer than a moment. Definition of moment: As it happens, high-trust societies have just spent the better part of a century teaching their constituents to "live in the present", atop half a millenium of teaching them that time is a thing linear, discrete, and properly scaled for decision making. Ergo: if the time between doing something stupid and realizing you did something stupid is longer than your attention span, you're a perpetual motion device.
- bequanna 10mo ago
  No, you simply are unable to reap the benefits that are available to high trust societies.
  - balamatom 10mo ago
    Reap 'em? I'm unable to even conceive of them!
Retric 10mo ago
Trust is irrelevant, families gain the after tax income of working mothers but society gains not just the pretax value but the actual value of work generated. Thus subsidizing childcare and moving the needle to align society’s benefits and family benefits is a net gain without the issue of trust being involved. The same is true of quality public education etc, however creating US vs THEM narratives are politically powerful even if they don’t actually reflect reality.
- MichaelZuo 10mo ago
  How can trust be irrelevant? Why would anyone want pretenders and deceivers to have better families?
  - Retric 10mo ago
    If you yourself alongside everyone else in your country benefits why should you care if you happen to dislike some of those people?
    - dmitrygr 10mo ago
      Because YOU are paying for those benefits and they aren’t. If you truly don’t see how offering something for free would attract all the freeloaders, increasing the load on those who work, there’s no saving you.
      - Retric 10mo ago
        What I am describing is you literally saving money. If a government can convert a 1k outlay into 1.1k of tax revenue that same month you aren’t actually paying for those benefits you are getting a little revenue instead of zero revenue. Due to their debts operating across such long timescales people make the same basic argument for things that take longer to see positive returns, but daycare is a very short loop.
        Aloisius 10mo ago

Totally agree. However, this only works in a high trust society, which we no longer have.

While in a low trust society, which you obviously already have, people are most productive when they're at perpetual risk of starvation.

linksnapzz 10mo ago
"productive"
- balamatom 10mo ago
  Simplest way to increase total absolute output is always to stop providing intake. Obviously, this fails almost immediately; operative word "almost". Definition of "almost": longer than a moment. Definition of moment: As it happens, high-trust societies have just spent the better part of a century teaching their constituents to "live in the present", atop half a millenium of teaching them that time is a thing linear, discrete, and properly scaled for decision making. Ergo: if the time between doing something stupid and realizing you did something stupid is longer than your attention span, you're a perpetual motion device.
bequanna 10mo ago
No, you simply are unable to reap the benefits that are available to high trust societies.
- balamatom 10mo ago
  Reap 'em? I'm unable to even conceive of them!

Retric 10mo ago

Trust is irrelevant, families gain the after tax income of working mothers but society gains not just the pretax value but the actual value of work generated. Thus subsidizing childcare and moving the needle to align society’s benefits and family benefits is a net gain without the issue of trust being involved. The same is true of quality public education etc, however creating US vs THEM narratives are politically powerful even if they don’t actually reflect reality.

MichaelZuo 10mo ago
How can trust be irrelevant? Why would anyone want pretenders and deceivers to have better families?
- Retric 10mo ago
  If you yourself alongside everyone else in your country benefits why should you care if you happen to dislike some of those people?
  - dmitrygr 10mo ago
    Because YOU are paying for those benefits and they aren’t. If you truly don’t see how offering something for free would attract all the freeloaders, increasing the load on those who work, there’s no saving you.
    - Retric 10mo ago
      What I am describing is you literally saving money. If a government can convert a 1k outlay into 1.1k of tax revenue that same month you aren’t actually paying for those benefits you are getting a little revenue instead of zero revenue. Due to their debts operating across such long timescales people make the same basic argument for things that take longer to see positive returns, but daycare is a very short loop.
      - Aloisius 10mo ago