7 ms·

The recommended 3 second gap is a much bigger distance than most people recognise, especially at high speed. On another note- I feel sad that you could tell yo

by ash_091 10mo ago

The recommended 3 second gap is a much bigger distance than most people recognise, especially at high speed. On another note- I feel sad that you could tell your mate "the way you're driving is making me uncomfortable" and be met with basically "your discomfort isn't valid because [technology] so I won't change my behaviour".

MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
As someone who continues to mask in public shared-air settings for my own health, I am entirely unsurprised by that response and get it all the time. Recently heard from a friend that also continues to mask when sharing air, they had arranged car pooling for one of their children. And just this morning the other parent texted saying "your child wearing a mask makes me uncomfortable so we can no longer car pool". So … yeah. Entirely unsurprised by that attitude. "Every person for themselves but also not if it's something I personally dislike."
- pipes 10mo ago
  Genuine question (as in not a passive aggressive question!) why do you and your friends child mask?
  - MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
    Not sure why you'd ask me that vs. use Google, feels like cornering a random driver to defend "Why do you use seatbelts?". But I'll offer one reply at your word that it's genuine and not passive-aggressive. 1. I am currently dealing with the after-effects of a previous Covid infection that requires expensive, ongoing medical treatment. I'm not anxious to test what additional infections may cause. 2. Wearing an N95 respirator is a cheap and easy preventative measure that is highly effective. 3. I adjust my habits based on measured risk. In my part of the world (Alberta), the current risk forecast for November 8-21 is that approximately 1 in every 81 people are currently infected with Covid. I relax my masking when it's 1 in 10,000 or less (which is not an unreasonable number; it's been there in the past). 4. Recent medical studies suggest that repeated Covid exposure is particularly harmful for children. Long Covid is now the #1 chronic condition in children in the US (displacing asthma as the top chronic childhood condition). As a parent, I see it as my responsibility to give my children the best chance at a long, healthy, medical-intervention-free life. A few links (or just use Google): - Covid monitoring in Canada: https://covid19resources.ca/ https://covid19resources.ca/ - Long Covid overtaking asthma as top childhood chronic illness: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2834486 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... - Rolling Stone on Covid's affects on children: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/long-covid-kids-school-absenteeism-1235447552/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/long-c... - Remarks by Violet Affleck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTjCqIxorw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTjCqIxorw - Tom Hanks: https://whn.global/youve-got-a-friend-in-me-tom-hanks-shows-subway-riders-how-to-protect-their-health/ https://whn.global/youve-got-a-friend-in-me-tom-hanks-shows-... - A longer answer than mine: https://whn.global/yes-we-continue-wearing-masks/ https://whn.global/yes-we-continue-wearing-masks/
    - DoomDestroyer 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
        I'm not here to debate the scientific evidence; labelling well-researched peer-reviewed studies as "paranoia" (your words, before editing your reply) because you don't like the outcome is absolutely your choice, and tells me there's little chance any reasoned reply will be meaningful as you've made up your mind. For others that might be curious: Your anecdote around acute infection recovery makes the common mistake of confusing acute infection (the period where you "feel sick") with long-term systemic (post-acute) symptoms. The typical influenza (flu) only has an acute phase; once you're done "feeling sick", the virus has been eradicated from your body. And unfortunately, many talking heads keep repeating "Covid is now just like the flu" which ignores long-term consequences of repeated Covid infection, which does not behave like the flu (it is not an acute-phase only illness). And this isn't unique to Covid, viruses with post-acute phases are well known and well studied: - HIV is the acute phase that (years later) leads to AIDS; - Epstein-Barr virus (EBV, or "mono") is a herpes-family virus that goes dormant after the acute phase and often later triggers ME/CFS - Herpes virus in the form of chickenpox goes dormant after the acute phase and frequently later leads to shingles; - and many others; Google is your friend. Distinguishing between viruses that have acute-only vs. post-acute phases is a key input to my personal risk assessment stance. I value having as long and healthy a life as I can. And just as I have, you're free to decide what risk tolerance you're comfortable with for your lifestyle and longevity goals. If you require the extra adrenaline kick of feeling morally superior by publicly passing judgement upon others' choices, have at it — genuinely! — and I hope you find all the missing joy you need.
        DoomDestroyer2 10mo ago
        > I'm not here to debate the scientific evidence; labelling well-researched peer-reviewed studies as "paranoia" (your words, before editing your reply) because you don't like the outcome is absolutely your choice, and tells me there's little chance any reasoned reply will be meaningful as you've made up your mind. A web page about why people are still wearing masks when the risks to most people is extremely low is paranoia and is not "well research peer-reviewed studies". It is people cherry picking things because to justify their own neurosis. As I said I've had to deal with someone that behaves exactly like you do for my entire life. I hope your children don't resent you for it, because I still have a hard time dealing with my mother as a result. You are doing exactly the same thing as she does. Whenever anyone points out that she is being paranoid (which is everyone because she is), she will just get angry and demand you do it. Which is pretty much what you did here. > Your anecdote around acute infection recovery makes the common mistake of confusing acute infection (the period where you "feel sick") with long-term systemic (post-acute) symptoms. The vast majority of people do not suffer this with COVID. > The typical influenza (flu) only has an acute phase; once you're done "feeling sick", the virus has been eradicated from your body. And unfortunately, many talking heads keep repeating "Covid is now just like the flu" which ignores long-term consequences of repeated Covid infection, which does not behave like the flu (it is not an acute-phase only illness). For the vast majority of people they get it, they recover from it and they get on with life. > Google is your friend. It is actually better to talk to a medical professional. As they actually know what they are talking about. > And just as I have, you're free to decide what risk tolerance you're comfortable with for your lifestyle and longevity goals. If you require the extra adrenaline kick of feeling morally superior by publicly passing judgement upon others' choices, have at it — genuinely! — and I hope you find all the missing joy you need. That is what you did and are continuing to do. You are the one who likened it to seatbelts that have a tangible and demonstrable safety record to a virus that often most people catch and shake off after a week. It allows you to feel morally superior and every reply you've written so far is essentially nothing more than morally grandstanding.
- alehlopeh 10mo ago
  Isn’t all air shared?
  - MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
    Not in a way meaningful to assessing infectious risk, no. I consider outdoor air to be unshared, except in cases of large dense crowds (such as say outdoor festivals or sporting events). I consider risky shared air to be indoor air with one or more other individuals that are not known to be taking infection-prevention precautions. One can measure CO₂ as a proxy to rebreathed air fraction. For example, a CO₂ reading of 2300ppm (common in a small or medium room with a few others, or larger rooms with a crowd or conference room, or in a car) means 5% of your air is rebreathed (5% of your intake is output from another person's lungs). A way to think about this is we take ~20 breaths a minute on average. So in that scenario, it would be equivalent to one breath every minute coming directly from someone else's lungs. If they happen to be contagious with an airborne contagion (such as Covid, or influenza, or RSV), there's a high likelihood that you will catch it if you're spending more than a short time in that environment. There are nuances, such as maybe the air is being scrubbed (eg by a HEPA filter) which won't affect the CO₂ levels but will drastically lower the infectious risk of that environment. More reading: https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/what-a-carbon-dioxide-monitor-tells-you/ https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/what-a-carbon-dioxide-mo...
    - gblargg 10mo ago
      > One can measure CO₂ as a proxy to rebreathed air fraction. On this topic, I got a CO₂ meter fairly recently and was shocked how quickly it spikes with a couple of people in a car with the windows up and on recirculate. Easily over 2000 after a few minutes. I have to remind myself regularly when it's really hot or cold outside to keep the vent setting on fresh air.
      - xattt 10mo ago
        I’d love for cars to get some sort of sniffer that will switch to recirc if it detects a spike in exhaust fumes.
- throwaway2037 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
    [flagged]
- executesorder66 10mo ago
  > "your child wearing a mask makes me uncomfortable" What about that could possibly make someone uncomfortable. How does it have any effect on the other parent?
pipes 10mo ago
Yes on your last point, I feel exactly the same way. If anyone told me I was driving too fast and they were uncomfortable I'd immediately be apologetic and slow down, and I'd genuinely feel bad about it. As I get older I've realised that most people in my life react negatively if I express emotion that what they are doing is upsetting. It is only recently that I've realised my sample size is small and this kind of gas lighting behaviour is not ok. I've actually reached a point where I'm thankful that the internet popularised the phrase because it had helped me diagnose shitty behaviour that I've tolerated my whole life.
- ash_091 10mo ago
  > most people in my life react negatively if I express emotion that what they are doing is upsetting Right. I guess they feel accused, as though you're attacking their behaviour rather than sharing how it makes you feel, and instinctively become defensive in response? It's wonderful to meet people who don't think this way. My partner is incredible at this, I can tell her "when you X I feel Y" and know without a doubt her reaction will come from a place of trying to work together to understand whether the problem and solution exist in X, Y or both.
gblargg 10mo ago
I was with a friend who was driving and he literally said that the car in front of him was driving fairly close to him. I have a funny bumper magnet that says "sorry for driving so close in front of you" that mocks this inversion of cause.
- mensetmanusman 10mo ago
  This is amazing, ha
- johnisgood 10mo ago
  It is funny, yet I wonder how many people actually get it. :D

by ash_091 10mo ago

MichaelBurjack 10mo ago

As someone who continues to mask in public shared-air settings for my own health, I am entirely unsurprised by that response and get it all the time. Recently heard from a friend that also continues to mask when sharing air, they had arranged car pooling for one of their children. And just this morning the other parent texted saying "your child wearing a mask makes me uncomfortable so we can no longer car pool". So … yeah. Entirely unsurprised by that attitude. "Every person for themselves but also not if it's something I personally dislike."

pipes 10mo ago
Genuine question (as in not a passive aggressive question!) why do you and your friends child mask?
- MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
  Not sure why you'd ask me that vs. use Google, feels like cornering a random driver to defend "Why do you use seatbelts?". But I'll offer one reply at your word that it's genuine and not passive-aggressive. 1. I am currently dealing with the after-effects of a previous Covid infection that requires expensive, ongoing medical treatment. I'm not anxious to test what additional infections may cause. 2. Wearing an N95 respirator is a cheap and easy preventative measure that is highly effective. 3. I adjust my habits based on measured risk. In my part of the world (Alberta), the current risk forecast for November 8-21 is that approximately 1 in every 81 people are currently infected with Covid. I relax my masking when it's 1 in 10,000 or less (which is not an unreasonable number; it's been there in the past). 4. Recent medical studies suggest that repeated Covid exposure is particularly harmful for children. Long Covid is now the #1 chronic condition in children in the US (displacing asthma as the top chronic childhood condition). As a parent, I see it as my responsibility to give my children the best chance at a long, healthy, medical-intervention-free life. A few links (or just use Google): - Covid monitoring in Canada: https://covid19resources.ca/ https://covid19resources.ca/ - Long Covid overtaking asthma as top childhood chronic illness: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2834486 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... - Rolling Stone on Covid's affects on children: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/long-covid-kids-school-absenteeism-1235447552/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/long-c... - Remarks by Violet Affleck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTjCqIxorw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTjCqIxorw - Tom Hanks: https://whn.global/youve-got-a-friend-in-me-tom-hanks-shows-subway-riders-how-to-protect-their-health/ https://whn.global/youve-got-a-friend-in-me-tom-hanks-shows-... - A longer answer than mine: https://whn.global/yes-we-continue-wearing-masks/ https://whn.global/yes-we-continue-wearing-masks/
  - DoomDestroyer 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
      I'm not here to debate the scientific evidence; labelling well-researched peer-reviewed studies as "paranoia" (your words, before editing your reply) because you don't like the outcome is absolutely your choice, and tells me there's little chance any reasoned reply will be meaningful as you've made up your mind. For others that might be curious: Your anecdote around acute infection recovery makes the common mistake of confusing acute infection (the period where you "feel sick") with long-term systemic (post-acute) symptoms. The typical influenza (flu) only has an acute phase; once you're done "feeling sick", the virus has been eradicated from your body. And unfortunately, many talking heads keep repeating "Covid is now just like the flu" which ignores long-term consequences of repeated Covid infection, which does not behave like the flu (it is not an acute-phase only illness). And this isn't unique to Covid, viruses with post-acute phases are well known and well studied: - HIV is the acute phase that (years later) leads to AIDS; - Epstein-Barr virus (EBV, or "mono") is a herpes-family virus that goes dormant after the acute phase and often later triggers ME/CFS - Herpes virus in the form of chickenpox goes dormant after the acute phase and frequently later leads to shingles; - and many others; Google is your friend. Distinguishing between viruses that have acute-only vs. post-acute phases is a key input to my personal risk assessment stance. I value having as long and healthy a life as I can. And just as I have, you're free to decide what risk tolerance you're comfortable with for your lifestyle and longevity goals. If you require the extra adrenaline kick of feeling morally superior by publicly passing judgement upon others' choices, have at it — genuinely! — and I hope you find all the missing joy you need.
      - DoomDestroyer2 10mo ago
        > I'm not here to debate the scientific evidence; labelling well-researched peer-reviewed studies as "paranoia" (your words, before editing your reply) because you don't like the outcome is absolutely your choice, and tells me there's little chance any reasoned reply will be meaningful as you've made up your mind. A web page about why people are still wearing masks when the risks to most people is extremely low is paranoia and is not "well research peer-reviewed studies". It is people cherry picking things because to justify their own neurosis. As I said I've had to deal with someone that behaves exactly like you do for my entire life. I hope your children don't resent you for it, because I still have a hard time dealing with my mother as a result. You are doing exactly the same thing as she does. Whenever anyone points out that she is being paranoid (which is everyone because she is), she will just get angry and demand you do it. Which is pretty much what you did here. > Your anecdote around acute infection recovery makes the common mistake of confusing acute infection (the period where you "feel sick") with long-term systemic (post-acute) symptoms. The vast majority of people do not suffer this with COVID. > The typical influenza (flu) only has an acute phase; once you're done "feeling sick", the virus has been eradicated from your body. And unfortunately, many talking heads keep repeating "Covid is now just like the flu" which ignores long-term consequences of repeated Covid infection, which does not behave like the flu (it is not an acute-phase only illness). For the vast majority of people they get it, they recover from it and they get on with life. > Google is your friend. It is actually better to talk to a medical professional. As they actually know what they are talking about. > And just as I have, you're free to decide what risk tolerance you're comfortable with for your lifestyle and longevity goals. If you require the extra adrenaline kick of feeling morally superior by publicly passing judgement upon others' choices, have at it — genuinely! — and I hope you find all the missing joy you need. That is what you did and are continuing to do. You are the one who likened it to seatbelts that have a tangible and demonstrable safety record to a virus that often most people catch and shake off after a week. It allows you to feel morally superior and every reply you've written so far is essentially nothing more than morally grandstanding.
alehlopeh 10mo ago
Isn’t all air shared?
- MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
  Not in a way meaningful to assessing infectious risk, no. I consider outdoor air to be unshared, except in cases of large dense crowds (such as say outdoor festivals or sporting events). I consider risky shared air to be indoor air with one or more other individuals that are not known to be taking infection-prevention precautions. One can measure CO₂ as a proxy to rebreathed air fraction. For example, a CO₂ reading of 2300ppm (common in a small or medium room with a few others, or larger rooms with a crowd or conference room, or in a car) means 5% of your air is rebreathed (5% of your intake is output from another person's lungs). A way to think about this is we take ~20 breaths a minute on average. So in that scenario, it would be equivalent to one breath every minute coming directly from someone else's lungs. If they happen to be contagious with an airborne contagion (such as Covid, or influenza, or RSV), there's a high likelihood that you will catch it if you're spending more than a short time in that environment. There are nuances, such as maybe the air is being scrubbed (eg by a HEPA filter) which won't affect the CO₂ levels but will drastically lower the infectious risk of that environment. More reading: https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/what-a-carbon-dioxide-monitor-tells-you/ https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/what-a-carbon-dioxide-mo...
  - gblargg 10mo ago
    > One can measure CO₂ as a proxy to rebreathed air fraction. On this topic, I got a CO₂ meter fairly recently and was shocked how quickly it spikes with a couple of people in a car with the windows up and on recirculate. Easily over 2000 after a few minutes. I have to remind myself regularly when it's really hot or cold outside to keep the vent setting on fresh air.
    - xattt 10mo ago
      I’d love for cars to get some sort of sniffer that will switch to recirc if it detects a spike in exhaust fumes.
throwaway2037 10mo ago
[flagged]
- MichaelBurjack 10mo ago
  [flagged]
executesorder66 10mo ago
> "your child wearing a mask makes me uncomfortable" What about that could possibly make someone uncomfortable. How does it have any effect on the other parent?

pipes 10mo ago

Yes on your last point, I feel exactly the same way. If anyone told me I was driving too fast and they were uncomfortable I'd immediately be apologetic and slow down, and I'd genuinely feel bad about it. As I get older I've realised that most people in my life react negatively if I express emotion that what they are doing is upsetting. It is only recently that I've realised my sample size is small and this kind of gas lighting behaviour is not ok. I've actually reached a point where I'm thankful that the internet popularised the phrase because it had helped me diagnose shitty behaviour that I've tolerated my whole life.

ash_091 10mo ago
> most people in my life react negatively if I express emotion that what they are doing is upsetting Right. I guess they feel accused, as though you're attacking their behaviour rather than sharing how it makes you feel, and instinctively become defensive in response? It's wonderful to meet people who don't think this way. My partner is incredible at this, I can tell her "when you X I feel Y" and know without a doubt her reaction will come from a place of trying to work together to understand whether the problem and solution exist in X, Y or both.

gblargg 10mo ago

I was with a friend who was driving and he literally said that the car in front of him was driving fairly close to him. I have a funny bumper magnet that says "sorry for driving so close in front of you" that mocks this inversion of cause.

mensetmanusman 10mo ago
This is amazing, ha
johnisgood 10mo ago
It is funny, yet I wonder how many people actually get it. :D