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The curse of modern super bright LEDs. Add to that list; super bright red brake lights, and a new trend for animated turning lights / indicators. Looks like s

The curse of modern super bright LEDs. Add to that list; super bright red brake lights, and a new trend for animated turning lights / indicators. Looks like something we'd have installed as teenagers after watching Knight Rider. Really distracting. Some of the towns here also started scattering flashing LEDs over every road sign they can find. Some areas feel like driving through Blackpool Illuminations. The worst offender locally is a roundabout light that flashes blue, which of course you assume to be an emergency vehicle approaching.

Y_Y 10mo ago
Add to that rental bikes that have always-on flashing lights. My neurospice is relatively mild, but flashing lights and animations in my field of view really fuck up my ability to focus on other things. I can't be the only one with this issue, but it doesn't seem to garner much sympathy. I still drive when I have to, but I had to give up watching soccer on tv when they added animated ads to all the pitches. I'm honestly considering some kind of AR filtering at this point. Also shoutouts to the places in South America (esp. Guayaquil) where people modify cars and buses to have constantly flashing lights, animated screens etc. It's like having a little Times Square in every traffic jam! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOdfcJpvps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOdfcJpvps
- crazygringo 10mo ago
  To be fair, the flashing on bicycles is intentional, precisely to make sure you are aware of them, since they're so much smaller and vulnerable, and the light itself is so much smaller than the rear light on a vehicle. It's not just on rentals, it's a standard feature of bicycle rear lights that is there for safety.
  - martijnvds 10mo ago
    In the Netherlands, bike lights _must not_ flash. The law very explicitly states that they need to be "always on" (in the dark). The main reason seems to be that it's hard for others to to gauge your speed when your lights are flashing.
    - crazygringo 10mo ago
      Fascinating. I just looked up a bit of research on it, and it seems there are two contradicting phenomena at play. Flashing helps in seeing cyclists further away and helps with visibility generally -- but it also makes it harder to estimate speed and distance. Apparently, the absolute safest solution is to have two rear lights side-by-side -- one that is always on and one that is always flashing. It doesn't seem like there's clear data on which is safer if you have to pick only one. Different countries/states have chosen differently.
      - exmadscientist 10mo ago
        Flashing on-off and always on aren't the only options. I wish more designers went with flashing bright-dim, because it solves a lot of problems. I once worked on a device where we were required to blink the Important Safety Light™ on-off. I often glanced at this light out of the corner of my eye, and saw that it was off, so we were Safe™. We were not Safe™: it was just in the off phase of its blink. I am very glad I never got hurt by trusting that light. I wanted to blink it bright-dim but was denied by people who said that IEC 61010 required it to blink, and blinking bright-dim isn't blinking. I didn't quite understand that objection.
        Y_Y 10mo ago
        This is a strong point. Nobody likes a rapidly flashing light (extra annoying, seems broken, can be hard to differentiate from "on but dim"). Then again if you flash slowly then you'll have some appreiable amount of time when it's off and that can include the entire opportunity you have to look at something. Ideally (for me) you could have smooth high-low alternation or colour alternation. (I recognize that something that looks like emergency services, e.g. alternating blue/white may be illegal, and that colour-blindness may limit this approach.)
        crazygringo 10mo ago
        Having a third brightness state feels confusing. If a safety indicator needs to be visible at a glance, why did it blink at all? Blinking only works for things that are in your vision and need to be the primary focus. It seems like blinking to begin with is terrible design for something like this, or else having it be in the corner of your eye is the terrible design decision.
  - jandrese 10mo ago
    Blinding and dazzling oncoming traffic in the name of safety is outright stupid. If you are riding a bike and you're lighting up the heads of oncoming riders or pedestrians you are being dangerous and obnoxious. Never shine a flashlight above someone's shoulders at night if you can help it.
    - crazygringo 10mo ago
      What are you talking about? Did you mean to reply to a different comment? Bicycle lights aren't blinding anybody. At least none I've ever seen. They're powered by little batteries usually. The subject at hand was whether they flash or not. Not their brightness, which I've never heard anybody complain about.
      - jandrese 10mo ago
        You definitely don't ride around here if you have not been blinded by a bike headlight. They can blow away your vision from half a mile away easily. I can't even see the trail in front of me without putting my hand up to block the light. I call it the nighttime salute. They are much worse if they flash. That blinds and disorients. Even after they pass you won't be able to see anything for some time.
        crazygringo 10mo ago
        True, I'm referring to places where there are already car headlights. The bike lamps are so dim by comparison, there's nothing to complain about. If you're somewhere without any other lighting and your eyes have adjusted to the darkness, then I can understand how they might seem bright. But I'm not really sure what you think the solution is. They're already vastly dimmer than cars, but make them any dimmer and the cyclist won't be able to see the ground and it won't be safe.
        jandrese 10mo ago
        That is still very much not my experiance. I ride on the roads a bit and usually cars are fine, although there are people with aftermarket lights and people who just leave high beams on all the time in heavy traffic. But I've experienced riding down the road with oncoming traffic in the other direction and doing just fine until a bicycle comes and blinds me just like the high intensity high beam guys. They are generally much brigter in terms of light delivered directly to the eyeballs of oncoming traffic. Are you sure people aren't seeing you because your lights are too dim, or because you're making it impossible to see anything around them?
  - RandallBrown 10mo ago
    Flashing lights on bicycles are illegal in a lot of places. If bikes didn't move, a blinking light would be fine. But they do move and it makes it really hard to tell where the bike is in the dark.
  - Y_Y 10mo ago
    I dunno man, I'm a cyclist, and I live in a big city full of cyclists. I've also used and seen a lot of bike lights in my time. Flashing is often an option, but the default is usually "always on". Also flashing is really fucking annoying, and I my own experience is that it does notale cyclista more visible or safe. I don't use flashing lights myself, even though I can't see the rear one and eould probably rather be annoying than dead.
    - crazygringo 10mo ago
      It seems like it depends a lot on the city/country. To be clear, I'm talking about rear lights only. The front light is white and always-on so you can see the ground. Plus you can see what's in front of you, so you avoid things, people don't need to avoid you as much. It's the rear red light that flashes. You yourself don't see the flashing, but it increases visibility so people don't run into you, when you can't see them behind you. When I'm behind a cyclist with a flashing red rear light, it doesn't bother me. It feels safe. It probably encourages me to keep a little extra distance from them, which is a good thing.
BobaFloutist 10mo ago
The thing that really irritates me about the animated turning lights is that they still do it when hazards are on. The one and only possible use case would be differentiating between hazards and turn signals, and they don't do it.
- thewebguyd 10mo ago
  I've seen flashing third brake lights too. I don't get adding flashing lights to brake and tail lights. It's actually worse, flashing lights make it harder for us to judge distance as now there's no steady queue needed for depth perception. It's why when cycling I've always opted for a solid taillight instead of the flashing ones.
  - toast0 10mo ago
    Flashing third brake light (in the US) is usually a dealer profit addon. Personally, I think these violate federal vehicle safety law. I'll add a link to a federal letter that I think agrees with me [1]... But no enforcement means dealers alter the wiring harness to add these on to all their inventory and add a line item on the bill. They'll remove it if you complain, but the wiring harness has been altered. I'm ok with factory strobing on hard braking, and I think that is permitted generally. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/20288ztv https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/20288ztv
    - potato3732842 10mo ago
      They're not altering anything. This isn't a stereo shop in 1990. They're literally just getting paid to plug something in.
      - toast0 10mo ago
        From the install guide [1] under "Installation Instructions, General", step 5 is: > Cut the positive wire to the third brake light and strip the insulation from both ends of the cut. That's altering the factory wiring harness. That's an extra junction the factory didn't authorize and when it fails, the factory warranty won't cover it, because the wiring harness modification lead to the failure. All so the dealer can make about $250 extra on a sale. If these were built as a module you plugged in between the wiring harness plug and the light module socket, I'd have a smidge less hate for them; but there's too many plug types for that, and there might not be enough room anyway, so the dealer has to cut into the wiring harness for this ... if there's a real benefit to flashing brake lights, it should be standardized and done by the manufacturers. [1] https://pulseprotects.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Sales-Rep-Install-Guide-03.09.20.pdf https://pulseprotects.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Sales-R...
mikkupikku 10mo ago
Those radar speed limit signs that blink at what seems like 50 times a second if you go 36 in a 35 zone are very annoying. To be fair the blink threshold must be configurable, but whoever installed them around here didn't have any common sense and set them all to the speed limit exactly.
- potato3732842 10mo ago
  There's one near me that's set to 45 in a 55. Every time I drive past it it gets a little closer to going missing. It's a minimum effort install on a wood post and it's right near the road to enter a new bougie subdivision in an otherwise rural area so it's almost certainly a cheap attempt to make a complainer go away.
- sobjornstad 10mo ago
  I also hate the ones that are exactly at the spot where the speed limit changes and still flash you aggressively in the distance. Yeah, I'm going faster than 35 because the speed limit is 55 where I am and I'm still slowing down.
moltopoco 10mo ago
Not just flashing but also flickering, some headlights that I've seen in the wild look quite aggressive if they are in the periphery; dimming gone wrong? Anything that flickers or flashes will be brighter at peak than if it was a constant light source.
Zak 10mo ago
Another problem is LED lights using low-frequency PWM to control brightness. If they're moving in someone's field of view, there's a strobe effect.
mr_toad 10mo ago
Housings on indicators that reflect so much sunlight you can’t see that they’re on.
- jimnotgym 10mo ago
  Plus some cars have tiny indicators now, or weird led stripes around the brake lights
ethagnawl 10mo ago
> The curse of modern super bright LEDs I don't understand why people are allowed to drive around with blinding LED light bars which affect other drivers ability to see the road and and _oh so conveniently_ obscure their front license plates.

Y_Y 10mo ago

Add to that rental bikes that have always-on flashing lights. My neurospice is relatively mild, but flashing lights and animations in my field of view really fuck up my ability to focus on other things. I can't be the only one with this issue, but it doesn't seem to garner much sympathy. I still drive when I have to, but I had to give up watching soccer on tv when they added animated ads to all the pitches. I'm honestly considering some kind of AR filtering at this point. Also shoutouts to the places in South America (esp. Guayaquil) where people modify cars and buses to have constantly flashing lights, animated screens etc. It's like having a little Times Square in every traffic jam! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOdfcJpvps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOdfcJpvps

crazygringo 10mo ago
To be fair, the flashing on bicycles is intentional, precisely to make sure you are aware of them, since they're so much smaller and vulnerable, and the light itself is so much smaller than the rear light on a vehicle. It's not just on rentals, it's a standard feature of bicycle rear lights that is there for safety.
- martijnvds 10mo ago
  In the Netherlands, bike lights _must not_ flash. The law very explicitly states that they need to be "always on" (in the dark). The main reason seems to be that it's hard for others to to gauge your speed when your lights are flashing.
  - crazygringo 10mo ago
    Fascinating. I just looked up a bit of research on it, and it seems there are two contradicting phenomena at play. Flashing helps in seeing cyclists further away and helps with visibility generally -- but it also makes it harder to estimate speed and distance. Apparently, the absolute safest solution is to have two rear lights side-by-side -- one that is always on and one that is always flashing. It doesn't seem like there's clear data on which is safer if you have to pick only one. Different countries/states have chosen differently.
    - exmadscientist 10mo ago
      Flashing on-off and always on aren't the only options. I wish more designers went with flashing bright-dim, because it solves a lot of problems. I once worked on a device where we were required to blink the Important Safety Light™ on-off. I often glanced at this light out of the corner of my eye, and saw that it was off, so we were Safe™. We were not Safe™: it was just in the off phase of its blink. I am very glad I never got hurt by trusting that light. I wanted to blink it bright-dim but was denied by people who said that IEC 61010 required it to blink, and blinking bright-dim isn't blinking. I didn't quite understand that objection.
      - Y_Y 10mo ago
        This is a strong point. Nobody likes a rapidly flashing light (extra annoying, seems broken, can be hard to differentiate from "on but dim"). Then again if you flash slowly then you'll have some appreiable amount of time when it's off and that can include the entire opportunity you have to look at something. Ideally (for me) you could have smooth high-low alternation or colour alternation. (I recognize that something that looks like emergency services, e.g. alternating blue/white may be illegal, and that colour-blindness may limit this approach.)
      - crazygringo 10mo ago
        Having a third brightness state feels confusing. If a safety indicator needs to be visible at a glance, why did it blink at all? Blinking only works for things that are in your vision and need to be the primary focus. It seems like blinking to begin with is terrible design for something like this, or else having it be in the corner of your eye is the terrible design decision.
- jandrese 10mo ago
  Blinding and dazzling oncoming traffic in the name of safety is outright stupid. If you are riding a bike and you're lighting up the heads of oncoming riders or pedestrians you are being dangerous and obnoxious. Never shine a flashlight above someone's shoulders at night if you can help it.
  - crazygringo 10mo ago
    What are you talking about? Did you mean to reply to a different comment? Bicycle lights aren't blinding anybody. At least none I've ever seen. They're powered by little batteries usually. The subject at hand was whether they flash or not. Not their brightness, which I've never heard anybody complain about.
    - jandrese 10mo ago
      You definitely don't ride around here if you have not been blinded by a bike headlight. They can blow away your vision from half a mile away easily. I can't even see the trail in front of me without putting my hand up to block the light. I call it the nighttime salute. They are much worse if they flash. That blinds and disorients. Even after they pass you won't be able to see anything for some time.
      - crazygringo 10mo ago
        True, I'm referring to places where there are already car headlights. The bike lamps are so dim by comparison, there's nothing to complain about. If you're somewhere without any other lighting and your eyes have adjusted to the darkness, then I can understand how they might seem bright. But I'm not really sure what you think the solution is. They're already vastly dimmer than cars, but make them any dimmer and the cyclist won't be able to see the ground and it won't be safe.
        jandrese 10mo ago
        That is still very much not my experiance. I ride on the roads a bit and usually cars are fine, although there are people with aftermarket lights and people who just leave high beams on all the time in heavy traffic. But I've experienced riding down the road with oncoming traffic in the other direction and doing just fine until a bicycle comes and blinds me just like the high intensity high beam guys. They are generally much brigter in terms of light delivered directly to the eyeballs of oncoming traffic. Are you sure people aren't seeing you because your lights are too dim, or because you're making it impossible to see anything around them?
- RandallBrown 10mo ago
  Flashing lights on bicycles are illegal in a lot of places. If bikes didn't move, a blinking light would be fine. But they do move and it makes it really hard to tell where the bike is in the dark.
- Y_Y 10mo ago
  I dunno man, I'm a cyclist, and I live in a big city full of cyclists. I've also used and seen a lot of bike lights in my time. Flashing is often an option, but the default is usually "always on". Also flashing is really fucking annoying, and I my own experience is that it does notale cyclista more visible or safe. I don't use flashing lights myself, even though I can't see the rear one and eould probably rather be annoying than dead.
  - crazygringo 10mo ago
    It seems like it depends a lot on the city/country. To be clear, I'm talking about rear lights only. The front light is white and always-on so you can see the ground. Plus you can see what's in front of you, so you avoid things, people don't need to avoid you as much. It's the rear red light that flashes. You yourself don't see the flashing, but it increases visibility so people don't run into you, when you can't see them behind you. When I'm behind a cyclist with a flashing red rear light, it doesn't bother me. It feels safe. It probably encourages me to keep a little extra distance from them, which is a good thing.

BobaFloutist 10mo ago

The thing that really irritates me about the animated turning lights is that they still do it when hazards are on. The one and only possible use case would be differentiating between hazards and turn signals, and they don't do it.

thewebguyd 10mo ago
I've seen flashing third brake lights too. I don't get adding flashing lights to brake and tail lights. It's actually worse, flashing lights make it harder for us to judge distance as now there's no steady queue needed for depth perception. It's why when cycling I've always opted for a solid taillight instead of the flashing ones.
- toast0 10mo ago
  Flashing third brake light (in the US) is usually a dealer profit addon. Personally, I think these violate federal vehicle safety law. I'll add a link to a federal letter that I think agrees with me [1]... But no enforcement means dealers alter the wiring harness to add these on to all their inventory and add a line item on the bill. They'll remove it if you complain, but the wiring harness has been altered. I'm ok with factory strobing on hard braking, and I think that is permitted generally. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/20288ztv https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/20288ztv
  - potato3732842 10mo ago
    They're not altering anything. This isn't a stereo shop in 1990. They're literally just getting paid to plug something in.
    - toast0 10mo ago
      From the install guide [1] under "Installation Instructions, General", step 5 is: > Cut the positive wire to the third brake light and strip the insulation from both ends of the cut. That's altering the factory wiring harness. That's an extra junction the factory didn't authorize and when it fails, the factory warranty won't cover it, because the wiring harness modification lead to the failure. All so the dealer can make about $250 extra on a sale. If these were built as a module you plugged in between the wiring harness plug and the light module socket, I'd have a smidge less hate for them; but there's too many plug types for that, and there might not be enough room anyway, so the dealer has to cut into the wiring harness for this ... if there's a real benefit to flashing brake lights, it should be standardized and done by the manufacturers. [1] https://pulseprotects.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Sales-Rep-Install-Guide-03.09.20.pdf https://pulseprotects.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Sales-R...

mikkupikku 10mo ago

Those radar speed limit signs that blink at what seems like 50 times a second if you go 36 in a 35 zone are very annoying. To be fair the blink threshold must be configurable, but whoever installed them around here didn't have any common sense and set them all to the speed limit exactly.

potato3732842 10mo ago
There's one near me that's set to 45 in a 55. Every time I drive past it it gets a little closer to going missing. It's a minimum effort install on a wood post and it's right near the road to enter a new bougie subdivision in an otherwise rural area so it's almost certainly a cheap attempt to make a complainer go away.
sobjornstad 10mo ago
I also hate the ones that are exactly at the spot where the speed limit changes and still flash you aggressively in the distance. Yeah, I'm going faster than 35 because the speed limit is 55 where I am and I'm still slowing down.

moltopoco 10mo ago

Not just flashing but also flickering, some headlights that I've seen in the wild look quite aggressive if they are in the periphery; dimming gone wrong? Anything that flickers or flashes will be brighter at peak than if it was a constant light source.

Zak 10mo ago

Another problem is LED lights using low-frequency PWM to control brightness. If they're moving in someone's field of view, there's a strobe effect.

mr_toad 10mo ago

Housings on indicators that reflect so much sunlight you can’t see that they’re on.

jimnotgym 10mo ago
Plus some cars have tiny indicators now, or weird led stripes around the brake lights

ethagnawl 10mo ago

> The curse of modern super bright LEDs I don't understand why people are allowed to drive around with blinding LED light bars which affect other drivers ability to see the road and and _oh so conveniently_ obscure their front license plates.