11 ms·

You have no issues with handing over your cell phone to a police officer who pulls you over? I imagine you'll say "all I have to do is present an ID", but what

by jcon321 10mo ago

You have no issues with handing over your cell phone to a police officer who pulls you over? I imagine you'll say "all I have to do is present an ID", but what if the officer cannot read it, so he wants to hold it? Okay you wont let him hold it, so he bends down and gets real close to your phone? You know he must verify the address against his database, so you're going to make him write down your address as he walks back to his car? Yea some people cannot afford this type of friction when dealing with police officers.

quit32 10mo ago
Places that support Apple's digital ID / Wallet state ID do so by utilizing a an identity reader that the user taps their phone against after selecting which info they want to convey. It is not meant for the owner to physically show the phone to the requesting party. I'm sure this will happen in some cases especially in the interim where digital ID is technically not accepted but the person doesn't have their physical ID. An example would be a traffic stop in a state that currently supports digital state ID since usually the digital ID is basically only supported at TSA currently. But the cop looking at your phone doesn't add any more authenticity vs you just verbalizing the info and them writing it down which is what they usually do if someone has a photo of their missing ID. Also, Apple cleverly designed it so if phone is in locked state and you activate wallet and select ID, the biometric scan it does doesn't unlock the entire phone and trying to get into the rest of phone requires another biometric scan or phone password. From the article "Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID."
- blessedwhiskers 10mo ago
  That assumes every LEO, bodega, grocery store, etc. goes out and buys the terminals to read these things though. Assuming LEOs you encounter will never just say "sorry, my reader is broken, go ahead and unlock your phone so I can bring it back to my car and type in your info to look up your license" feels naive, especially for folks with darker skin tones. I agree it's possible to present your ID without unlocking your phone, but is it likely?
  - quit32 10mo ago
    It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually. FWIW it will never technically be legal to rely on visually looking at someones phone to verify age / id bc it would be incredibly easy to fake the display and physical interaction. The only reason it can work as an ID is if it is digitally verified by a reader. But I do agree that especially in the interim there will be cases where LEO will coerce a phone handover but I don't think this will be a long term problem since physical interaction with the phone does nothing to verify authenticity. You may as well hand them a piece of paper you printed out with your info.
    - overfeed 10mo ago
      > It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually. They may wind up ubiquitous, but reader usage will be determined by the officers in the field, on a case by case basis. Take a look at jurisdictions where body cameras are mandated but are turned off, or intentionally obstructed.
  - voxic11 10mo ago
    Don't hand over your physical ID either. Unless you are driving no one can make you identify yourself with a government ID.
    - crazygringo 10mo ago
      I think you're forgetting about flights. And country borders. And I'm not sure how much luck you're going to have opening a bank account... does your birth certificate work for that?
      - rpdillon 10mo ago
        His point is more that if you're walking down the sidewalk on a cop asks you for your ID, you're under no obligation to provide it. But now that ICE is carrying facial recognition scanners that you're not allowed to opt out of, I guess the point is probably moot.
culopatin 10mo ago
Then don’t do it
- RandomBacon 10mo ago
  Just like it's an option to not use credit cards, cell phones, email, etc.

by jcon321 10mo ago

quit32 10mo ago

Places that support Apple's digital ID / Wallet state ID do so by utilizing a an identity reader that the user taps their phone against after selecting which info they want to convey. It is not meant for the owner to physically show the phone to the requesting party. I'm sure this will happen in some cases especially in the interim where digital ID is technically not accepted but the person doesn't have their physical ID. An example would be a traffic stop in a state that currently supports digital state ID since usually the digital ID is basically only supported at TSA currently. But the cop looking at your phone doesn't add any more authenticity vs you just verbalizing the info and them writing it down which is what they usually do if someone has a photo of their missing ID. Also, Apple cleverly designed it so if phone is in locked state and you activate wallet and select ID, the biometric scan it does doesn't unlock the entire phone and trying to get into the rest of phone requires another biometric scan or phone password. From the article "Users do not need to unlock, show, or hand over their device to present their ID."

blessedwhiskers 10mo ago
That assumes every LEO, bodega, grocery store, etc. goes out and buys the terminals to read these things though. Assuming LEOs you encounter will never just say "sorry, my reader is broken, go ahead and unlock your phone so I can bring it back to my car and type in your info to look up your license" feels naive, especially for folks with darker skin tones. I agree it's possible to present your ID without unlocking your phone, but is it likely?
- quit32 10mo ago
  It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually. FWIW it will never technically be legal to rely on visually looking at someones phone to verify age / id bc it would be incredibly easy to fake the display and physical interaction. The only reason it can work as an ID is if it is digitally verified by a reader. But I do agree that especially in the interim there will be cases where LEO will coerce a phone handover but I don't think this will be a long term problem since physical interaction with the phone does nothing to verify authenticity. You may as well hand them a piece of paper you printed out with your info.
  - overfeed 10mo ago
    > It is likely that the reader will be implemented into a phone / tablet app so will be pretty ubiquitous eventually. They may wind up ubiquitous, but reader usage will be determined by the officers in the field, on a case by case basis. Take a look at jurisdictions where body cameras are mandated but are turned off, or intentionally obstructed.
- voxic11 10mo ago
  Don't hand over your physical ID either. Unless you are driving no one can make you identify yourself with a government ID.
  - crazygringo 10mo ago
    I think you're forgetting about flights. And country borders. And I'm not sure how much luck you're going to have opening a bank account... does your birth certificate work for that?
    - rpdillon 10mo ago
      His point is more that if you're walking down the sidewalk on a cop asks you for your ID, you're under no obligation to provide it. But now that ICE is carrying facial recognition scanners that you're not allowed to opt out of, I guess the point is probably moot.

culopatin 10mo ago

Then don’t do it

RandomBacon 10mo ago
Just like it's an option to not use credit cards, cell phones, email, etc.