6 ms·

Wow melbourne is getting that bad! Does your org have a name?

by gobins 10mo ago

softgrow 10mo ago
Sounds like Hatzolah Melbourne, https://hatzolah.org.au https://hatzolah.org.au since 1994 Since 1998, in Melbourne for anything that might need a defibrillator a fire engine is sent at the same time as the ambulance (EMR Emergency Medical Response Program). https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2002/177/6/cardiac-arrests-treated-ambulance-paramedics-and-fire-fighters https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2002/177/6/cardiac-arrests-tr... Medical Journal of Australia article. There is also GoodSAM https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/goodsam/ https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/goodsam/ for individual helpers
- tharkun__ 10mo ago
  What about helicopters? Does Melbourne not have/use theirs in those cases or is the system just overwhelmed? Asking because (different country) when we had a person present with stroke symptoms and called 911, they sent both an ambulance and the helicopter. The heli came first but it had to land a ways off on a field and they had to walk over and basically arrived around the same time as the ambulance. A couple minutes earlier basically. No fire engine dispatched but that made sense too as it's volunteer based and while they would've been much closer, getting them to the station would've taken longer than the helicopter. Driving time for the ambulance if it came from the same place as the helipad would've been about 15 min for the ambulance. Fire engine driving time from volunteer department: 2 min but no dedicated paramedic services, just volunteer firefighters. Heli time in air probably about 2 minutes given the "as the crow flies" distance I just checked, add whatever time is needed to get them in the air and such. Now I can't really trust these numbers fully of course but according to "a quick AI analysis" :P Melbourne with millions of population has 0.08 helicopters and 8-10 ambulances per 100k population while the aforementioned location is at about 0.3 helicopters per 100k and 6-12 ambulances. Can it be true? It also says New York City has no emergency helicopters at all? Los Angeles has 0.18 per 100k? I know my current location definitely also has none at all. For millions of people.
  - softgrow 10mo ago
    I don't think my taxes/insurance costs/donations to charity are high enough. London (donation funded) has a helicopter service that attends 6 serious trauma cases a day. Denmark, Germany and others has a Helicopter Emergency Medical Service which delivers a senior doctor and paramedic. It probably doesn't scale well. Basic issues like overhead powerlines make life difficult for helicopters. They are used in rural Australia as an alternative to road, but only due to time saving. In a city, well you get a road ambulance/paramedic/medical team. The (Melbourne) Victorian Ambulance Cardiac Arrest Registry claims third best in the world in out of hospital cardiac arrest.
  - strken 10mo ago
    I was under the impression that air ambulances in Victoria are mostly for rural areas - either responding to incidents in the middle of nowhere, or flying patients to Melbourne for urgent specialist care. Most of them aren't even based in Melbourne, they're out in regional centres like Bendigo and Warrnambool[0]. A helicopter seems like it would be pretty useless for landing in an urban area. I can't imagine winching is risk-free or would save much time, and you can probably put many more ambulances on the ground for the cost of a single air ambulance. [0] https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/air-ambulance-victoria https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/air-ambulance-victoria
- pugio 10mo ago
  Yes it's Hatzolah. It's a volunteer Jewish organization - run (and paid for) by the local Jewish community, but we respond to anyone who calls us, regardless of background or ethnicity. (There are Hatzolah organizations all over the world, where there are Jewish communities.)
scorpioxy 10mo ago
Oh yes. Quite bad and I don't know if things are getting slightly better than "bad" or the media is tired of reporting about it. Up until a year or so ago, an appointment at a GP would take weeks of waiting. Specialist appointments were 1+ years waiting time. This is somewhat better now with the establishment of critical-care clinics operating after hours. This is from personal experience. The emergency rooms often had waiting time of 12+ hours(or more). I know someone who has been waiting on a procedure at the public hospital for 6+ years. Another has a child waiting for an appointment with an estimated wait time of 3+ years. All non-urgent but a wait list in the years is no longer a wait list to me, it's a system that is not fit for purpose. Initially all of this was attributed to the pandemic and the harsh lockdowns in Victoria. But a few years out, it seems difficult to still do that. When asked, our government just re-states that they've invested in this and that and then deflect. Recently, due to the horrible state finances, the healthcare system was being downsized with services cut and the bloodshed continues. This is without talking about the systemic issues and incompetence I've seen. The funny thing is that outsiders think that public health care means free. It's really not. We pay for it on top of our income tax(1-2% on top, more if you're above a certain threshold) and it is not cheap. It wouldn't be so bad if it was working like you'd expect but paying for a non-functional system is....I don't know what to say.
- tecoholic 10mo ago
  Wow. I didn’t know that things are this way. I am a recent immigrant living close to the city and always seem to be able to see a GP on the same day. Is that because I have private insurance and I pay out of pocket anyways? If I were a citizen, I wouldn’t be able to go to those places (at least for “free healthcare”), and will have the same wait times? Or is it geography dependent with rural Victoria having issues and Melbourne city being well covered?
  - d0ublespeak 10mo ago
    With seeing a doctor we have two main systems that you can use and each will have a different waiting time. Bulk-billing and the fully public option has longer waiting times because there aren’t enough clinics/specialists or doctors, The reasons for this are complex but they stem from an unwillingness from prior governments to raise the amount the government pays for each service to adequately to support this system meaning less doctors and practices being willing to support it. You’ve then got practices/specialists etc… that charge copays and they tend to have less waiting times because less people are willing to pay copays. A lot of these practices will also do outright private billing which is what you’re experiencing.

Wow melbourne is getting that bad! Does your org have a name?

by gobins 10mo ago

Wow melbourne is getting that bad! Does your org have a name?

Sounds like Hatzolah Melbourne, https://hatzolah.org.au https://hatzolah.org.au since 1994 Since 1998, in Melbourne for anything that might need a defibrillator a fire engine is sent at the same time as the ambulance (EMR Emergency Medical Response Program). https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2002/177/6/cardiac-arrests-treated-ambulance-paramedics-and-fire-fighters https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2002/177/6/cardiac-arrests-tr... Medical Journal of Australia article. There is also GoodSAM https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/goodsam/ https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/goodsam/ for individual helpers

tharkun__ 10mo ago
What about helicopters? Does Melbourne not have/use theirs in those cases or is the system just overwhelmed? Asking because (different country) when we had a person present with stroke symptoms and called 911, they sent both an ambulance and the helicopter. The heli came first but it had to land a ways off on a field and they had to walk over and basically arrived around the same time as the ambulance. A couple minutes earlier basically. No fire engine dispatched but that made sense too as it's volunteer based and while they would've been much closer, getting them to the station would've taken longer than the helicopter. Driving time for the ambulance if it came from the same place as the helipad would've been about 15 min for the ambulance. Fire engine driving time from volunteer department: 2 min but no dedicated paramedic services, just volunteer firefighters. Heli time in air probably about 2 minutes given the "as the crow flies" distance I just checked, add whatever time is needed to get them in the air and such. Now I can't really trust these numbers fully of course but according to "a quick AI analysis" :P Melbourne with millions of population has 0.08 helicopters and 8-10 ambulances per 100k population while the aforementioned location is at about 0.3 helicopters per 100k and 6-12 ambulances. Can it be true? It also says New York City has no emergency helicopters at all? Los Angeles has 0.18 per 100k? I know my current location definitely also has none at all. For millions of people.
- softgrow 10mo ago
  I don't think my taxes/insurance costs/donations to charity are high enough. London (donation funded) has a helicopter service that attends 6 serious trauma cases a day. Denmark, Germany and others has a Helicopter Emergency Medical Service which delivers a senior doctor and paramedic. It probably doesn't scale well. Basic issues like overhead powerlines make life difficult for helicopters. They are used in rural Australia as an alternative to road, but only due to time saving. In a city, well you get a road ambulance/paramedic/medical team. The (Melbourne) Victorian Ambulance Cardiac Arrest Registry claims third best in the world in out of hospital cardiac arrest.
- strken 10mo ago
  I was under the impression that air ambulances in Victoria are mostly for rural areas - either responding to incidents in the middle of nowhere, or flying patients to Melbourne for urgent specialist care. Most of them aren't even based in Melbourne, they're out in regional centres like Bendigo and Warrnambool[0]. A helicopter seems like it would be pretty useless for landing in an urban area. I can't imagine winching is risk-free or would save much time, and you can probably put many more ambulances on the ground for the cost of a single air ambulance. [0] https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/air-ambulance-victoria https://www.ambulance.vic.gov.au/air-ambulance-victoria
pugio 10mo ago
Yes it's Hatzolah. It's a volunteer Jewish organization - run (and paid for) by the local Jewish community, but we respond to anyone who calls us, regardless of background or ethnicity. (There are Hatzolah organizations all over the world, where there are Jewish communities.)

scorpioxy 10mo ago

Oh yes. Quite bad and I don't know if things are getting slightly better than "bad" or the media is tired of reporting about it. Up until a year or so ago, an appointment at a GP would take weeks of waiting. Specialist appointments were 1+ years waiting time. This is somewhat better now with the establishment of critical-care clinics operating after hours. This is from personal experience. The emergency rooms often had waiting time of 12+ hours(or more). I know someone who has been waiting on a procedure at the public hospital for 6+ years. Another has a child waiting for an appointment with an estimated wait time of 3+ years. All non-urgent but a wait list in the years is no longer a wait list to me, it's a system that is not fit for purpose. Initially all of this was attributed to the pandemic and the harsh lockdowns in Victoria. But a few years out, it seems difficult to still do that. When asked, our government just re-states that they've invested in this and that and then deflect. Recently, due to the horrible state finances, the healthcare system was being downsized with services cut and the bloodshed continues. This is without talking about the systemic issues and incompetence I've seen. The funny thing is that outsiders think that public health care means free. It's really not. We pay for it on top of our income tax(1-2% on top, more if you're above a certain threshold) and it is not cheap. It wouldn't be so bad if it was working like you'd expect but paying for a non-functional system is....I don't know what to say.

tecoholic 10mo ago
Wow. I didn’t know that things are this way. I am a recent immigrant living close to the city and always seem to be able to see a GP on the same day. Is that because I have private insurance and I pay out of pocket anyways? If I were a citizen, I wouldn’t be able to go to those places (at least for “free healthcare”), and will have the same wait times? Or is it geography dependent with rural Victoria having issues and Melbourne city being well covered?
- d0ublespeak 10mo ago
  With seeing a doctor we have two main systems that you can use and each will have a different waiting time. Bulk-billing and the fully public option has longer waiting times because there aren’t enough clinics/specialists or doctors, The reasons for this are complex but they stem from an unwillingness from prior governments to raise the amount the government pays for each service to adequately to support this system meaning less doctors and practices being willing to support it. You’ve then got practices/specialists etc… that charge copays and they tend to have less waiting times because less people are willing to pay copays. A lot of these practices will also do outright private billing which is what you’re experiencing.