4 ms·

I think the author has forgotten to write about the most important part, namely, what each part of the hieroglyphics mean. I found this article [1] for how the

I think the author has forgotten to write about the most important part, namely, what each part of the hieroglyphics mean. I found this article [1] for how the word "Welcome" is constructed, but how to understand the rest is beyond me. [1] https://www.ancientegyptblog.com/?p=1458 https://www.ancientegyptblog.com/?p=1458

yohannparis 10mo ago
I completely agree, that's what I wanted to see. The goal of an HELLO WORLD is not to show it's printed, but the process of what everything is need to print HELLO WORLD. Every step, and every word and concept needs to be explained. Therefore this article is not a proper HELLO WORLD exemple.
- vincent-manis 10mo ago
  Yes, what OS did the Egyptians use?
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 10mo ago
    If "hello world" is about the process to get to showing "hello world" then I guess some part of the OS/computer is stone and chisels.
  - yohannparis 10mo ago
    OS is not part of an HELLO WORLD example. Usually it goes something like this, for example HTML: <!doctype html> <html> <body>HELLO WORLD</body> </html> Then you explain what a tag is, why they need closing or not, what the body is, etc. This is a basic HELLO WORLD example. If I dumped the above code and says done, that will be useless to anybody.
  - kortex 10mo ago
    SunOS, clearly. 𓇳𓁉𓀃𓀀
zOneLetter 10mo ago
RIGHT! I thought I missed a paragraph or something lol
__mharrison__ 10mo ago
Start drawing the owl... Finished!
maxdamantus 10mo ago
Indeed, my understanding (which is backed up by your link) is that the hieroglyphs aren't just pictograms that try to draw the meaning but they tend to have particular pronunciations, and the selection of glyphs will usually depend on both the sound and the meaning of the word. I guess Chinese characters work similarly, where eg, each character has a particular sound in Mandarin (with some characters having the same sound), but you spell words using certain characters based on the (sometimes historical) semantic association of components (radicals) within each character. I'll admit I'm not an expert in either system, so sorry if either description seems like an oversimplification (I'm pretty sure there are exceptions in both cases). This also leads to one of my favourite tables on Wikipedia [0], showing correspondences between various scripts, including Egyptian hieroglyphs and Arabic/Hebrew. Not all hieroglyphs are included, but you can see that each letter in Arabic/Hebrew ultimately derives from some hieroglyph which would have had a similar sound. The name of the Arabic letter ع sounds the same as the Arabic word for "eye" (ʿayn, عين) and the corresponding hieroglyph also looks like an eye. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet#Table_of_letters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet#Table_of_l...
- Y_Y 10mo ago
  https://thelanguagenerds.com/2023/literal-chinese-translations-of-world-countries-names/ https://thelanguagenerds.com/2023/literal-chinese-translatio... You might then enjoy a list of these "accidental semantics" acquired by foreign country names, which are* rough transliterations, usually from local or English name. I can't find the nice source I originally had, so here's a stochastic patrot's approximation: United States 美国 Měiguó Beautiful Country China 中国 Zhōngguó Middle Country Japan 日本 Rìběn Origin of the Sun Germany 德国 Déguó Virtuous Country India 印度 Yìndù India United Kingdom 英国 Yīngguó Heroic Country France 法国 Fǎguó Law Country Italy 意大利 Yìdàlì Italy Canada 加拿大 Jiānádà Canada South Korea 韩国 Hánguó Han Country * Obviously CJK etc countries already had names
  - fluoridation 10mo ago
    Most of those are just phonetic approximations using convenient characters. I'm not sure I'd say the names have any semantic content. The names for China, Korea, and Japan are the names the ancient Chinese gave them. China is the "middle" or "center" country because it's the country of the people who named it. Japan is the origin of the sun because it's to the East of China. And of course the Han are what Koreans called themselves. Nothing accidental about any of those names.
yorwba 10mo ago
(I'm not an egyptologist.) The Thesaurus Linguae Aegyptiae has a breakdown of 𓅓𓂋𓄋𓏏𓏝𓊹𓊵𓏏𓅓𓇾𓂋𓇦𓂋𓆑 / jm.j-rʾ-wpw.wt-ḥtp.w-nṯr-m-tꜣ-r-ḏr=f / "overseer of apportionments of the god's offering(s) in the entire land" https://tla.digital/lemma/850281 https://tla.digital/lemma/850281 with 𓇾 / tꜣ / "land" and 𓂋𓇥𓂋 / r-ḏr / "entire". So we have most of 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 / jy.tj-tꜣ-r-ḏr-?? / "welcome land entire ??" except for the 𓈐𓆑 at the end where I have no idea whether it's phonetic ḥr=f or a determinative https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 or something else.
- monoidist 10mo ago
  I think the =f at the end is a possessive, because r ḏr=f is an idiomatic phrase literally meaning “to its limit”. 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 jy.tj t3 r ḏr=f come [STATIVE] land [VOCATIVE] to limit its “Welcome, entire land” (I’m not an Egyptologist either.)
  - yorwba 10mo ago
    Did you forget about the 𓈐 or does it get merged into the preceding word?
    - monoidist 10mo ago
      I think 𓈐 is the end of the preceding word, ḏr. It is functioning as a logogram, not a phonogram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinative
- nxobject 10mo ago
  What a time to be alive: my iPhone has enough Unicode coverage to display hieroglyphics… imagine thinking two decades ago that you could use disk space on a mobile device like that. (It doesn’t have the glyph layout chops, though…)

yohannparis 10mo ago

I completely agree, that's what I wanted to see. The goal of an HELLO WORLD is not to show it's printed, but the process of what everything is need to print HELLO WORLD. Every step, and every word and concept needs to be explained. Therefore this article is not a proper HELLO WORLD exemple.

vincent-manis 10mo ago
Yes, what OS did the Egyptians use?
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 10mo ago
  If "hello world" is about the process to get to showing "hello world" then I guess some part of the OS/computer is stone and chisels.
- yohannparis 10mo ago
  OS is not part of an HELLO WORLD example. Usually it goes something like this, for example HTML: <!doctype html> <html> <body>HELLO WORLD</body> </html> Then you explain what a tag is, why they need closing or not, what the body is, etc. This is a basic HELLO WORLD example. If I dumped the above code and says done, that will be useless to anybody.
- kortex 10mo ago
  SunOS, clearly. 𓇳𓁉𓀃𓀀

zOneLetter 10mo ago

RIGHT! I thought I missed a paragraph or something lol

__mharrison__ 10mo ago

Start drawing the owl... Finished!

maxdamantus 10mo ago

Indeed, my understanding (which is backed up by your link) is that the hieroglyphs aren't just pictograms that try to draw the meaning but they tend to have particular pronunciations, and the selection of glyphs will usually depend on both the sound and the meaning of the word. I guess Chinese characters work similarly, where eg, each character has a particular sound in Mandarin (with some characters having the same sound), but you spell words using certain characters based on the (sometimes historical) semantic association of components (radicals) within each character. I'll admit I'm not an expert in either system, so sorry if either description seems like an oversimplification (I'm pretty sure there are exceptions in both cases). This also leads to one of my favourite tables on Wikipedia [0], showing correspondences between various scripts, including Egyptian hieroglyphs and Arabic/Hebrew. Not all hieroglyphs are included, but you can see that each letter in Arabic/Hebrew ultimately derives from some hieroglyph which would have had a similar sound. The name of the Arabic letter ع sounds the same as the Arabic word for "eye" (ʿayn, عين) and the corresponding hieroglyph also looks like an eye. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet#Table_of_letters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet#Table_of_l...

Y_Y 10mo ago
https://thelanguagenerds.com/2023/literal-chinese-translations-of-world-countries-names/ https://thelanguagenerds.com/2023/literal-chinese-translatio... You might then enjoy a list of these "accidental semantics" acquired by foreign country names, which are* rough transliterations, usually from local or English name. I can't find the nice source I originally had, so here's a stochastic patrot's approximation: United States 美国 Měiguó Beautiful Country China 中国 Zhōngguó Middle Country Japan 日本 Rìběn Origin of the Sun Germany 德国 Déguó Virtuous Country India 印度 Yìndù India United Kingdom 英国 Yīngguó Heroic Country France 法国 Fǎguó Law Country Italy 意大利 Yìdàlì Italy Canada 加拿大 Jiānádà Canada South Korea 韩国 Hánguó Han Country * Obviously CJK etc countries already had names
- fluoridation 10mo ago
  Most of those are just phonetic approximations using convenient characters. I'm not sure I'd say the names have any semantic content. The names for China, Korea, and Japan are the names the ancient Chinese gave them. China is the "middle" or "center" country because it's the country of the people who named it. Japan is the origin of the sun because it's to the East of China. And of course the Han are what Koreans called themselves. Nothing accidental about any of those names.

yorwba 10mo ago

(I'm not an egyptologist.) The Thesaurus Linguae Aegyptiae has a breakdown of 𓅓𓂋𓄋𓏏𓏝𓊹𓊵𓏏𓅓𓇾𓂋𓇦𓂋𓆑 / jm.j-rʾ-wpw.wt-ḥtp.w-nṯr-m-tꜣ-r-ḏr=f / "overseer of apportionments of the god's offering(s) in the entire land" https://tla.digital/lemma/850281 https://tla.digital/lemma/850281 with 𓇾 / tꜣ / "land" and 𓂋𓇥𓂋 / r-ḏr / "entire". So we have most of 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 / jy.tj-tꜣ-r-ḏr-?? / "welcome land entire ??" except for the 𓈐𓆑 at the end where I have no idea whether it's phonetic ḥr=f or a determinative https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%93%88%90 or something else.

monoidist 10mo ago
I think the =f at the end is a possessive, because r ḏr=f is an idiomatic phrase literally meaning “to its limit”. 𓇍𓇋𓏭𓂻𓍘𓇋𓇾𓂋𓇥𓂋𓈐𓆑 jy.tj t3 r ḏr=f come [STATIVE] land [VOCATIVE] to limit its “Welcome, entire land” (I’m not an Egyptologist either.)
- yorwba 10mo ago
  Did you forget about the 𓈐 or does it get merged into the preceding word?
  - monoidist 10mo ago
    I think 𓈐 is the end of the preceding word, ḏr. It is functioning as a logogram, not a phonogram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinative
nxobject 10mo ago
What a time to be alive: my iPhone has enough Unicode coverage to display hieroglyphics… imagine thinking two decades ago that you could use disk space on a mobile device like that. (It doesn’t have the glyph layout chops, though…)