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"Unlike traditional monitors that force your eyes to focus at a near distance, Phantom allows you to look through the display and focus on objects at varying di

"Unlike traditional monitors that force your eyes to focus at a near distance, Phantom allows you to look through the display and focus on objects at varying distances. This helps reduce eye fatigue during long work sessions by giving your eyes natural opportunities to relax and refocus." Is there any science behind this or is it just a "sounds about right" claim?

evanjrowley 10mo ago
See this article on the growing prevelance of myopia: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/eyeballs-screens-vision-nearsightedness-myopia https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/eyeballs-scr... I intentionally arrange my desk so that I can look past my monitor. On days where I can't refocus my eyes on something long-distance, I have difficulty focusing my vision after spending 1/3 of the day looking at computer screens. On days where I can refocus my eyes, I can go up to 2/3 of the day without issue.
Zak 10mo ago
There seems to be real evidence[0] for the idea that focusing on nearby objects like computer screens for hours on end can contribute to the development of myopia. Breaks might help. I don't see any reason to believe that making the screen transparent rather than looking to the side of it is a better way to look out a window for a break. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34622560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34622560/
- jvanderbot 10mo ago
  I want some VR goggles that are light, only do text, and have focus at infinity or so. Not just 3D convergence at infinity but somehow manage to blur just right so my eyes can focus on it like it's across the street. I'm not an optometrist I'm just a consumer and programmer. A guy can wish.
  - bee_rider 10mo ago
    Maybe the text editor could fly around occasionally. Might be a little annoying but kind of fun.
    - yojo 10mo ago
      Having the whole desktop gradually change focal distance over ~an hour seems like it’d probably do the trick in a less distracting way.
  - plun9 10mo ago
    How about AR glasses? The focal distance on mine is roughly 4 meters.
  - piskov 10mo ago
    It’s impossible with near-eyes screens. See mismatch of vergence vs accomodation. The best thing for your eyes is to stay away from any head-mounted ar/vr/what-have-you-r stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflic...
    - plun9 10mo ago
      That's if you get motion sickness. You'd get temporary discomfort, not myopia. But if you don't get motion sickness, then AR/VR provides the benefit of a greater focal distance than computer monitors, tablets, smartphones, etc.
      - piskov 10mo ago
        No, read the studies. The issue of unsynced focus/vergence persists for hours. And it is only one of many. For example: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/20/6515 https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/20/6515
        plun9 10mo ago
        Not everyone gets motion sickness though. I can use my VR headset for hours without discomfort from VAC. From that publication: The results of the study indicated that the visual acuity of employees who work with data glasses generally did not change over the course of a shift and over a period of six months. Nevertheless, there were groups that had an increased chance of deterioration. Eye strain was frequently reported after working with the data glasses. Our study pointed out that employees aged 40 years and older are at risk for deteriorations of visual acuity, which is consistent with the findings of Yeow et al. (1991), who examined computer users.
        piskov 10mo ago
        I don’t understand why you keep bringing motion sickness. When you want to see something at different distances, you not only change focus but also pivot eyes at a certain angle (towards the nose or not). This angle is fucked with near-displays. And that inconsistency persists for hours. It’s like you would use walking sim and your foot starts bending at not usual angles to accommodate some sick-built walking surface of the sim.
abcd_f 10mo ago
There is an eye exercise for short-sighted people that involves painting a dot on a window glass and then repeatedly changing focus between the dot and the scenery behind the window. Basically, focus on the dot for 10 seconds, then on the back. Rinse and repeat several times, 2-3 times a day. I was given this exercise over 30 years ago and its goal was to stop the worsening of the eyesight. Fwiw, in my case, it seemed to have worked.
- shreddit 10mo ago
  For what it’s worth, i didn’t know about this and in the last 7 years my eyesight didn’t get any worse. I have -1/-1.5 And i work 8 hours in front of a computer
atoav 10mo ago
Unfortunately that isn't how optics work (former freelance camera person and VFX professional). When you look at a thing you will have two mechanisms at work: (1) the imagined view line of both your eyes will cross over at that focal point, (2) your eye muscles and irises will shift the focus of each individual eye to the distance of that convergence point. Meaning the stuff you concentrate on will be in focus and on a screen that is the screen, even if it is transparent. The target being 99% transparent doesn't magically shift your focus point backwards just because you can see the background. You would still have to look at it. You can easily try this at home. Take a sharpie, write on the window and try reading the text while focusing on some object on the outside. You will find the closer you are to the writing, the harder it will be to still read without shifting the focus back to the front. If anything you will find that reading on a non-uniform and potentially moving background will make it harder for your brain to focus on the text, not easier. The fact that they make a claim like this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in their ethics. It is healthy to not stare at the same focal plane for hours, but that just means heavy screen workers should make it a habit to occasionally let their gaze wander offscreen and potentially out of the window. The eyes are muscles, give them some movement.

evanjrowley 10mo ago

See this article on the growing prevelance of myopia: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/eyeballs-screens-vision-nearsightedness-myopia https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/14/eyeballs-scr... I intentionally arrange my desk so that I can look past my monitor. On days where I can't refocus my eyes on something long-distance, I have difficulty focusing my vision after spending 1/3 of the day looking at computer screens. On days where I can refocus my eyes, I can go up to 2/3 of the day without issue.

Zak 10mo ago

There seems to be real evidence[0] for the idea that focusing on nearby objects like computer screens for hours on end can contribute to the development of myopia. Breaks might help. I don't see any reason to believe that making the screen transparent rather than looking to the side of it is a better way to look out a window for a break. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34622560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34622560/

jvanderbot 10mo ago
I want some VR goggles that are light, only do text, and have focus at infinity or so. Not just 3D convergence at infinity but somehow manage to blur just right so my eyes can focus on it like it's across the street. I'm not an optometrist I'm just a consumer and programmer. A guy can wish.
- bee_rider 10mo ago
  Maybe the text editor could fly around occasionally. Might be a little annoying but kind of fun.
  - yojo 10mo ago
    Having the whole desktop gradually change focal distance over ~an hour seems like it’d probably do the trick in a less distracting way.
- plun9 10mo ago
  How about AR glasses? The focal distance on mine is roughly 4 meters.
- piskov 10mo ago
  It’s impossible with near-eyes screens. See mismatch of vergence vs accomodation. The best thing for your eyes is to stay away from any head-mounted ar/vr/what-have-you-r stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflic...
  - plun9 10mo ago
    That's if you get motion sickness. You'd get temporary discomfort, not myopia. But if you don't get motion sickness, then AR/VR provides the benefit of a greater focal distance than computer monitors, tablets, smartphones, etc.
    - piskov 10mo ago
      No, read the studies. The issue of unsynced focus/vergence persists for hours. And it is only one of many. For example: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/20/6515 https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/24/20/6515
      - plun9 10mo ago
        Not everyone gets motion sickness though. I can use my VR headset for hours without discomfort from VAC. From that publication: The results of the study indicated that the visual acuity of employees who work with data glasses generally did not change over the course of a shift and over a period of six months. Nevertheless, there were groups that had an increased chance of deterioration. Eye strain was frequently reported after working with the data glasses. Our study pointed out that employees aged 40 years and older are at risk for deteriorations of visual acuity, which is consistent with the findings of Yeow et al. (1991), who examined computer users.
        piskov 10mo ago
        I don’t understand why you keep bringing motion sickness. When you want to see something at different distances, you not only change focus but also pivot eyes at a certain angle (towards the nose or not). This angle is fucked with near-displays. And that inconsistency persists for hours. It’s like you would use walking sim and your foot starts bending at not usual angles to accommodate some sick-built walking surface of the sim.

abcd_f 10mo ago

There is an eye exercise for short-sighted people that involves painting a dot on a window glass and then repeatedly changing focus between the dot and the scenery behind the window. Basically, focus on the dot for 10 seconds, then on the back. Rinse and repeat several times, 2-3 times a day. I was given this exercise over 30 years ago and its goal was to stop the worsening of the eyesight. Fwiw, in my case, it seemed to have worked.

shreddit 10mo ago
For what it’s worth, i didn’t know about this and in the last 7 years my eyesight didn’t get any worse. I have -1/-1.5 And i work 8 hours in front of a computer

atoav 10mo ago

Unfortunately that isn't how optics work (former freelance camera person and VFX professional). When you look at a thing you will have two mechanisms at work: (1) the imagined view line of both your eyes will cross over at that focal point, (2) your eye muscles and irises will shift the focus of each individual eye to the distance of that convergence point. Meaning the stuff you concentrate on will be in focus and on a screen that is the screen, even if it is transparent. The target being 99% transparent doesn't magically shift your focus point backwards just because you can see the background. You would still have to look at it. You can easily try this at home. Take a sharpie, write on the window and try reading the text while focusing on some object on the outside. You will find the closer you are to the writing, the harder it will be to still read without shifting the focus back to the front. If anything you will find that reading on a non-uniform and potentially moving background will make it harder for your brain to focus on the text, not easier. The fact that they make a claim like this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in their ethics. It is healthy to not stare at the same focal plane for hours, but that just means heavy screen workers should make it a habit to occasionally let their gaze wander offscreen and potentially out of the window. The eyes are muscles, give them some movement.