8 ms·

Every time the author mentions a problem that young men face, he explains it away by saying that it stems from a society that's built against serving the needs

by ryuhhnn 10mo ago

Every time the author mentions a problem that young men face, he explains it away by saying that it stems from a society that's built against serving the needs of men, even though the outcomes affect women all the same. He mentions the college debt crisis and it's affects on men merely one breath after explaining that women outnumber men in higher education. The housing affordability crisis is also not exclusive to men. Workforce participation of men can also be explained by relaxed gender roles and more women entering the workforce while their male counterparts take on domestic work. Pretty much the only thing he rightfully identifies as a uniquely male issue is suicide. Nobody is averse to identifying the issues that men face, but be correct in what you're identifying as a uniquely male issue. This author has been making the rounds in popular culture lately and I can't help but feel like it's because he's offering an oversimplified solution to a problem that runs much deeper than how we treat men and young boys. Society consistently asks women and non-White people to take ownership of their own problems, why can't we ask the same of men?

IncreasePosts 10mo ago
Not only are more women in college, but average starting salary out of college is $12k more for men than women: https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/nace-research-pay-inequity-based-on-gender-begins-at-the-start-of-career/ https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/nace-researc... Women also on average go into slightly more debt: https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-gender https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-gender
- bradlys 10mo ago
  Yeah, says it right there: women choose lower paying professions. That’s literally all it is. The pay gap mostly has to do with what careers women choose. Most men and women earn the same given the same credentials, years of experience, and job.
  - IncreasePosts 10mo ago
    Even if that's true, it doesn't really matter. The fact is that regardless of why it happens, women come out of college with more debt and less ability to repay it than men do. If you're writing out woes specifically of men relative to women, then college debt shouldn't be one of those issues.
  - afavour 10mo ago
    > women choose lower paying professions Do they actively choose lower paying professions or do they unwillingly end up in those professions? It seems to be you're making a logical leap without citation. Why would a gender choose en masse to earn less money?
    - xboxnolifes 10mo ago
      Because it's entirely plausible for one to enjoy different things on average?
      - afavour 10mo ago
        For that to be plausible it would mean the vast majority of women choose their profession based on enjoyment with no consideration of earning potential. Which doesn’t feel all that plausible. At the very least you’d expect a study on it, any data at all.
        bradlys 10mo ago
        Arguing with someone like this is just pointless. You'd argue over whether the sky is blue. You're in denial about basic tangible realities. Damn, first time I'm hearing that women can't choose their majors in college but for some reason men can! What kind of learned helplessness wokeist bullshit is this? It's no wonder this country has gone to the capitalists. Idiotic arguments like this are at the forefront of every left movement. "Women can't do anything! They can't choose their own careers!" Left leaning people just like to shoot themselves in the foot and say, "I blame the right!" You could, you know, maybe fight for something and actually choose a direction in life rather than being a victim of everything. Where's the old left that would actually fight and kill for their rights? This country fucking sucks.
        afavour 10mo ago
        What a ridiculous response. My objection is to explaining away observed data with unsupported assertion. There is a pay gap = fact The pay gap is largely attributable to women working in fields that pay less = fact Women work in these fields because they choose to = unsupported assertion Dress it up in some internal dialogue you have with yourself about “left” “right” and “woke” if you wish but it doesn’t speak to my point at all. You’re just settling on an answer that feels right to you and shutting down any further thought. “Everybody knows it’s true” is pure laziness.
wakawaka28 10mo ago
>Pretty much the only thing he rightfully identifies as a uniquely male issue is suicide. Haha you must be a woman. Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes, disproportionately lose assets and custody in divorce, get discriminated against at work on DEI terms, go to college less than ever (maybe a good idea, but opposite stats would trigger outrage), and yes they even get less sex on average. They are constantly told that women don't need or want them, they have a ton of privilege (even as they struggle). If you stand up for yourself as a man, people call you a lot of nasty names like "incel" or "Nazi". >This author has been making the rounds in popular culture lately and I can't help but feel like it's because he's offering an oversimplified solution to a problem that runs much deeper than how we treat men and young boys. Honestly I could not get through this article. This guy is being promoted by somebody. There are far better voices for men out there who don't mince words when describing the problems men face. >Society consistently asks women and non-White people to take ownership of their own problems, why can't we ask the same of men? Overwhelmingly women and minorities have been promoted literally at the expense of men. Companies give bonuses for checking off boxes, and skirt the law to put white men down. Society is not one monolithic voice. While some people have told everyone to take responsibility for themselves, the dominant political regime for perhaps the past 30-50 years (and by far much worse in the past 15 or so) has been favoring women over men on average. You can't talk about men's issues without first apologizing to women who have never seen anything but positive favoritism from the system, yet think they are oppressed. The same statement applies to the everyone vs. white men dynamic. At some point, being mean to specific groups such as white men, or men in general, is going to backfire. But I expect the system to try to preempt that and force the issue, to further vilify the actual victims here.
- 1659447091 10mo ago
  > Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes Not the Op, but this is simply wrong for domestic killings The majority of women who kill their partner do so in self-defense after having endured abuse from that partner. After the system fails them and the abuse finally breaks them the courts hand down ~15 year sentences[*]. When the guy's abuse end's up killing a female partner/family member, he gets around 2-6 years, because the female made him super mad and he lost control. Agreed on the custody and asset cases needing an overhaul years ago. But saying men have it unfair because females are defaulted to in (civil, not criminal) custody cases screwing over the guys that actually want to show up, and ignoring how women are screwed in criminal self-defense domestic killings compared to mens rage/hate/power-trip domestic killings -- is really stretching that unfair tag [*] Don't have time to find a stat link, but its widely known and published in news articles on the topic, studies etc that come up in a basic search

by ryuhhnn 10mo ago

IncreasePosts 10mo ago

Not only are more women in college, but average starting salary out of college is $12k more for men than women: https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/nace-research-pay-inequity-based-on-gender-begins-at-the-start-of-career/ https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/compensation/nace-researc... Women also on average go into slightly more debt: https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-gender https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-by-gender

bradlys 10mo ago
Yeah, says it right there: women choose lower paying professions. That’s literally all it is. The pay gap mostly has to do with what careers women choose. Most men and women earn the same given the same credentials, years of experience, and job.
- IncreasePosts 10mo ago
  Even if that's true, it doesn't really matter. The fact is that regardless of why it happens, women come out of college with more debt and less ability to repay it than men do. If you're writing out woes specifically of men relative to women, then college debt shouldn't be one of those issues.
- afavour 10mo ago
  > women choose lower paying professions Do they actively choose lower paying professions or do they unwillingly end up in those professions? It seems to be you're making a logical leap without citation. Why would a gender choose en masse to earn less money?
  - xboxnolifes 10mo ago
    Because it's entirely plausible for one to enjoy different things on average?
    - afavour 10mo ago
      For that to be plausible it would mean the vast majority of women choose their profession based on enjoyment with no consideration of earning potential. Which doesn’t feel all that plausible. At the very least you’d expect a study on it, any data at all.
      - bradlys 10mo ago
        Arguing with someone like this is just pointless. You'd argue over whether the sky is blue. You're in denial about basic tangible realities. Damn, first time I'm hearing that women can't choose their majors in college but for some reason men can! What kind of learned helplessness wokeist bullshit is this? It's no wonder this country has gone to the capitalists. Idiotic arguments like this are at the forefront of every left movement. "Women can't do anything! They can't choose their own careers!" Left leaning people just like to shoot themselves in the foot and say, "I blame the right!" You could, you know, maybe fight for something and actually choose a direction in life rather than being a victim of everything. Where's the old left that would actually fight and kill for their rights? This country fucking sucks.
        afavour 10mo ago
        What a ridiculous response. My objection is to explaining away observed data with unsupported assertion. There is a pay gap = fact The pay gap is largely attributable to women working in fields that pay less = fact Women work in these fields because they choose to = unsupported assertion Dress it up in some internal dialogue you have with yourself about “left” “right” and “woke” if you wish but it doesn’t speak to my point at all. You’re just settling on an answer that feels right to you and shutting down any further thought. “Everybody knows it’s true” is pure laziness.

wakawaka28 10mo ago

>Pretty much the only thing he rightfully identifies as a uniquely male issue is suicide. Haha you must be a woman. Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes, disproportionately lose assets and custody in divorce, get discriminated against at work on DEI terms, go to college less than ever (maybe a good idea, but opposite stats would trigger outrage), and yes they even get less sex on average. They are constantly told that women don't need or want them, they have a ton of privilege (even as they struggle). If you stand up for yourself as a man, people call you a lot of nasty names like "incel" or "Nazi". >This author has been making the rounds in popular culture lately and I can't help but feel like it's because he's offering an oversimplified solution to a problem that runs much deeper than how we treat men and young boys. Honestly I could not get through this article. This guy is being promoted by somebody. There are far better voices for men out there who don't mince words when describing the problems men face. >Society consistently asks women and non-White people to take ownership of their own problems, why can't we ask the same of men? Overwhelmingly women and minorities have been promoted literally at the expense of men. Companies give bonuses for checking off boxes, and skirt the law to put white men down. Society is not one monolithic voice. While some people have told everyone to take responsibility for themselves, the dominant political regime for perhaps the past 30-50 years (and by far much worse in the past 15 or so) has been favoring women over men on average. You can't talk about men's issues without first apologizing to women who have never seen anything but positive favoritism from the system, yet think they are oppressed. The same statement applies to the everyone vs. white men dynamic. At some point, being mean to specific groups such as white men, or men in general, is going to backfire. But I expect the system to try to preempt that and force the issue, to further vilify the actual victims here.

1659447091 10mo ago
> Men are more severely punished in court for the same crimes Not the Op, but this is simply wrong for domestic killings The majority of women who kill their partner do so in self-defense after having endured abuse from that partner. After the system fails them and the abuse finally breaks them the courts hand down ~15 year sentences[*]. When the guy's abuse end's up killing a female partner/family member, he gets around 2-6 years, because the female made him super mad and he lost control. Agreed on the custody and asset cases needing an overhaul years ago. But saying men have it unfair because females are defaulted to in (civil, not criminal) custody cases screwing over the guys that actually want to show up, and ignoring how women are screwed in criminal self-defense domestic killings compared to mens rage/hate/power-trip domestic killings -- is really stretching that unfair tag [*] Don't have time to find a stat link, but its widely known and published in news articles on the topic, studies etc that come up in a basic search