7 ms·

Well , if that’s the case , it would be much easier to tax the land owners. Can have exponentially bigger tax so the more land they own, the more tax they have

Well , if that’s the case , it would be much easier to tax the land owners. Can have exponentially bigger tax so the more land they own, the more tax they have to pay until they can’t afford to own the land. They can’t run as they can’t bring the land with them . Socialism might work in that world

larsiusprime 11mo ago
> Socialism might work in that world Technically, what you've just described is Georgism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism The real question is, in a truly post-labor future, how do workers have enough leverage to negotiate for any particular change in the economic system?
- kubb 11mo ago
  Violence. Unfortunately.
  - HeyImAlex 11mo ago
    In the times of the French Revolution that was enough, but I think technology is obsoleting us there too. If evil oligarch can make a bunker and ten million $100 kill bots, I don’t think the people are rising up unless existence is worse than death, and even then they might not win.
    - kubb 11mo ago
      Back to feudalism, huh?
      - Gud 11mo ago
        No, survival of the fittest. In this case, the people whose ancestors were better at hogging resources.
        kubb 11mo ago
        Survival of the shittiest?
        ryandrake 11mo ago
        Most of human history has been Survival of the Shittiest.
    - mackeye 11mo ago
      colonial revolutions tended to be fought by those for whom death was preferable to existence. i don't disagree that, in this age, the chance of success is slimmer, and will continue to shrink as such --- there's probably some critical mass of capital fortification which is unpenetrable without worker leverage
DeusExMachina 11mo ago
Socialism "might" always work in an immaginary world that does not take into account the reality of the human condition. One of the many flaws of such immaginary worlds is thinking that people will be content to live in a system where they have no creative outlet left and nothing they do will have any ultimate meaning. People in those conditions might burn down the system for the mere excitement of novelty. Even experimental rat utopias quickly degenerate.
- bparsons 11mo ago
  There are a lot of functioning socialist states. You don't have to imagine them. They are happier, healthier and have better infrastructure than the United States.
  - wenc 11mo ago
    Which ones? If you’re thinking Scandinavian countries they are mixed economies. Most successful economies today are mixed economies.
    - bparsons 11mo ago
      All economies are mixed, save for North Korea, which is command economy communism. On the sliding scale of welfare state socialism, Finland and Norway have the greatest degree of public investment. Angola would be on the other side of that spectrum, with almost no public services or redistributive programs offered.
    - xboxnolifes 11mo ago
      When people want to introduce Scandinavian-like social programs to the US, it's "socialism doesn't work". When people point out that they work in the Scandinavian countries it's "Those aren't actually socialism".
      - DeusExMachina 11mo ago
        When people want to claim that socialism works, they point at countries that aren't socialist. Socialism is very well defined and it's made nebulous only to claim virtues it doesn't have. Scandinavian countries aren't socialist. They themselves say they are not socialist and a simple google search for "are scandinavian countries socialist?" will show you that the consensus is that they are not.
scoofy 11mo ago
You don't even have to tax the monetary value of the land. You can require a percentage of the land, itself, over time. If we're really moving to a post labor world -- which I sincerely doubt -- I think the concept of private property is going to have to be narrowed only to things that have a limited lifespan.
some_furry 11mo ago
> Well , if that’s the case , it would be much easier to tax the land owners. No, the land owners have bought and paid for every politician. Not gonna happen.

larsiusprime 11mo ago

> Socialism might work in that world Technically, what you've just described is Georgism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism The real question is, in a truly post-labor future, how do workers have enough leverage to negotiate for any particular change in the economic system?

kubb 11mo ago
Violence. Unfortunately.
- HeyImAlex 11mo ago
  In the times of the French Revolution that was enough, but I think technology is obsoleting us there too. If evil oligarch can make a bunker and ten million $100 kill bots, I don’t think the people are rising up unless existence is worse than death, and even then they might not win.
  - kubb 11mo ago
    Back to feudalism, huh?
    - Gud 11mo ago
      No, survival of the fittest. In this case, the people whose ancestors were better at hogging resources.
      - kubb 11mo ago
        Survival of the shittiest?
        ryandrake 11mo ago
        Most of human history has been Survival of the Shittiest.
  - mackeye 11mo ago
    colonial revolutions tended to be fought by those for whom death was preferable to existence. i don't disagree that, in this age, the chance of success is slimmer, and will continue to shrink as such --- there's probably some critical mass of capital fortification which is unpenetrable without worker leverage

DeusExMachina 11mo ago

Socialism "might" always work in an immaginary world that does not take into account the reality of the human condition. One of the many flaws of such immaginary worlds is thinking that people will be content to live in a system where they have no creative outlet left and nothing they do will have any ultimate meaning. People in those conditions might burn down the system for the mere excitement of novelty. Even experimental rat utopias quickly degenerate.

bparsons 11mo ago
There are a lot of functioning socialist states. You don't have to imagine them. They are happier, healthier and have better infrastructure than the United States.
- wenc 11mo ago
  Which ones? If you’re thinking Scandinavian countries they are mixed economies. Most successful economies today are mixed economies.
  - bparsons 11mo ago
    All economies are mixed, save for North Korea, which is command economy communism. On the sliding scale of welfare state socialism, Finland and Norway have the greatest degree of public investment. Angola would be on the other side of that spectrum, with almost no public services or redistributive programs offered.
  - xboxnolifes 11mo ago
    When people want to introduce Scandinavian-like social programs to the US, it's "socialism doesn't work". When people point out that they work in the Scandinavian countries it's "Those aren't actually socialism".
    - DeusExMachina 11mo ago
      When people want to claim that socialism works, they point at countries that aren't socialist. Socialism is very well defined and it's made nebulous only to claim virtues it doesn't have. Scandinavian countries aren't socialist. They themselves say they are not socialist and a simple google search for "are scandinavian countries socialist?" will show you that the consensus is that they are not.

scoofy 11mo ago

You don't even have to tax the monetary value of the land. You can require a percentage of the land, itself, over time. If we're really moving to a post labor world -- which I sincerely doubt -- I think the concept of private property is going to have to be narrowed only to things that have a limited lifespan.

some_furry 11mo ago

> Well , if that’s the case , it would be much easier to tax the land owners. No, the land owners have bought and paid for every politician. Not gonna happen.