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I went to a Montessori school from pre-K through 6th grade. I totally agree with this article. It is not easy to make this work on a public school-sized scale.

by jrh3 11mo ago

I went to a Montessori school from pre-K through 6th grade. I totally agree with this article. It is not easy to make this work on a public school-sized scale. The problem in education is not funding. We were a private school, but we made it work on a shoestring.

mmooss 11mo ago
> It is not easy to make this work on a public school-sized scale. Why not? Costs are lower, etc.
- adolph 11mo ago
  Costs aren't exactly lower. The study noted that the cost savings came from higher student to teacher ratios in 1st-3rd offsetting higher costs of teacher training and classroom materials over a hypothetical amortization period. This is rational but not indicative of flipping a switch to save x%. The upfront costs of teacher training and Montessori materials were amortized over their expected lifespan of 25 y. Total costs for Montessori and traditional programs were divided by the average number of children in each type of classroom at the PK3, PK4, and kindergarten years, then summed to yield the cost difference of Montessori and traditional programming over three years of public preschool. 0. https://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2506130122 https://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2506130122
  - em-bee 11mo ago
    higher costs of teacher training and classroom materials the current cost of montessori teacher training and materials is a matter of scale. the training only takes one year. the cost comes from it being done on top of the traditional teacher education that most teachers likely went through. if montessori training would be included into traditional teacher education, the cost would be absorbed (you could skip a few other redundant classes). likewise, the material produced at scale would be cheaper.
  - mmooss 11mo ago
    > not indicative of flipping a switch to save x% If that's our standard, then nothing is worth doing. Lower costs seem like a good possibility.
    - adolph 11mo ago
      Sure, sometimes short term spending enables long term savings. And on an even longer time scale, how do improved outcomes figure in? The significant factor is how a change like this is implemented in context. Within a public school system there may or may not be convincible political appetite to increase short term costs for longer term gains. It seems that the district(s) studied are making those changes and studying the outcomes in order to make prudent choices long term, which is not flipping a switch but is doing more than nothing.
sgc 11mo ago
The biggest problem with public school is school size and class size. The last century of school building built prison-like megaliths, when it should have built a much more distributed system. Class sizes under 20 and schools under 120 at least through middle school would raise a far less pathologically self-centered society. But most people who vote/make decisions would have to care more deeply, so I think it's a non-starter in the US, and more and more some other countries. Kids stop caring way too young as a self-preservation mechanism. This means many of them also stop trying... It's a spiral that can only be broken by restructuring.
- inglor_cz 11mo ago
  "Class sizes under 20 and schools under 120 at least through middle school would raise a far less pathologically self-centered society." This is a big if. Until the 1990s, class sizes routinely exceeded 30 and school sizes 500 in former Czechoslovakia, but I wouldn't call us "pathologically self-centered society". As for self-centeredness, shrinking family size might be the true reason. Only children tend to be a lot more pampered than kids who were born into a family of six. In China, they are called "Little Emperors".
  - bdangubic 11mo ago
    > As for self-centeredness, shrinking family size might be the true reason. Only children tend to be a lot more pampered than kids who were born into a family of six. to quote @inglor_cz - this is big if… you are arguing against generalization in your first paragraph and then you are proceeding to generalize… I am only child and my daughter is too and neither of us (especially me) have been pampered
    - inglor_cz 11mo ago
      I am an only child too. "Tend to be" is quite a soft claim, though, with plenty of room for exceptions. The Little Emperors phenomenon is still a thing. If a kid has two parents and four grandparents who have no other descendands, it is USUALLY on the receiving end of a lot more attention and resources than if there are six of them.
warrenmiller 11mo ago
They make it work as a public schooling system in Amsterdam. About 10% of the public schools are Montessori.

by jrh3 11mo ago

mmooss 11mo ago

> It is not easy to make this work on a public school-sized scale. Why not? Costs are lower, etc.

adolph 11mo ago
Costs aren't exactly lower. The study noted that the cost savings came from higher student to teacher ratios in 1st-3rd offsetting higher costs of teacher training and classroom materials over a hypothetical amortization period. This is rational but not indicative of flipping a switch to save x%. The upfront costs of teacher training and Montessori materials were amortized over their expected lifespan of 25 y. Total costs for Montessori and traditional programs were divided by the average number of children in each type of classroom at the PK3, PK4, and kindergarten years, then summed to yield the cost difference of Montessori and traditional programming over three years of public preschool. 0. https://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2506130122 https://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2506130122
- em-bee 11mo ago
  higher costs of teacher training and classroom materials the current cost of montessori teacher training and materials is a matter of scale. the training only takes one year. the cost comes from it being done on top of the traditional teacher education that most teachers likely went through. if montessori training would be included into traditional teacher education, the cost would be absorbed (you could skip a few other redundant classes). likewise, the material produced at scale would be cheaper.
- mmooss 11mo ago
  > not indicative of flipping a switch to save x% If that's our standard, then nothing is worth doing. Lower costs seem like a good possibility.
  - adolph 11mo ago
    Sure, sometimes short term spending enables long term savings. And on an even longer time scale, how do improved outcomes figure in? The significant factor is how a change like this is implemented in context. Within a public school system there may or may not be convincible political appetite to increase short term costs for longer term gains. It seems that the district(s) studied are making those changes and studying the outcomes in order to make prudent choices long term, which is not flipping a switch but is doing more than nothing.

sgc 11mo ago

The biggest problem with public school is school size and class size. The last century of school building built prison-like megaliths, when it should have built a much more distributed system. Class sizes under 20 and schools under 120 at least through middle school would raise a far less pathologically self-centered society. But most people who vote/make decisions would have to care more deeply, so I think it's a non-starter in the US, and more and more some other countries. Kids stop caring way too young as a self-preservation mechanism. This means many of them also stop trying... It's a spiral that can only be broken by restructuring.

inglor_cz 11mo ago
"Class sizes under 20 and schools under 120 at least through middle school would raise a far less pathologically self-centered society." This is a big if. Until the 1990s, class sizes routinely exceeded 30 and school sizes 500 in former Czechoslovakia, but I wouldn't call us "pathologically self-centered society". As for self-centeredness, shrinking family size might be the true reason. Only children tend to be a lot more pampered than kids who were born into a family of six. In China, they are called "Little Emperors".
- bdangubic 11mo ago
  > As for self-centeredness, shrinking family size might be the true reason. Only children tend to be a lot more pampered than kids who were born into a family of six. to quote @inglor_cz - this is big if… you are arguing against generalization in your first paragraph and then you are proceeding to generalize… I am only child and my daughter is too and neither of us (especially me) have been pampered
  - inglor_cz 11mo ago
    I am an only child too. "Tend to be" is quite a soft claim, though, with plenty of room for exceptions. The Little Emperors phenomenon is still a thing. If a kid has two parents and four grandparents who have no other descendands, it is USUALLY on the receiving end of a lot more attention and resources than if there are six of them.

warrenmiller 11mo ago

They make it work as a public schooling system in Amsterdam. About 10% of the public schools are Montessori.