8 ms·

Just guessing, but wouldn't surprise me if most luxury brands are struggling at the moment. I don't think this is the right time to buy a brand new, luxury car

Just guessing, but wouldn't surprise me if most luxury brands are struggling at the moment. I don't think this is the right time to buy a brand new, luxury car for most people. Considering the inflation, unemployment and uncertainty.

akmarinov 11mo ago
Is Tesla a luxury brand? They don’t sell a car over 62000€ in Europe.
- astahlx 11mo ago
  Tesla is not a luxury brand, but they ask for premium prices, compared to the value (worst in ADAC statistics on repairs) “ In 1974, a new car cost an average of 5320 euros. The average income was 13,928 euros per year, so a buyer had to work for an average of 4.6 months for a new car. 20 years later, it was already 7.4 months per new car. Until 2019, this number remained stable, but then it skyrocketed. Today, a buyer has to spend all his income from 9.6 months of employment to buy a new car. For more expensive e-cars, it is even 11.4 months. The reason is stagnant incomes, but also high profit margins of the manufacturers.” https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/verbraucher/kosten-autos-deutsche-hersteller-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/verbraucher/kosten-auto... From my personal perspective, as an employed software engineer, all cars over 50k are luxury.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - bagavi 11mo ago
    The value derived and average usage of a car has increased too... Also the financing around cars have made it smoother to buy one. Also Electric can demand a premium because they save on gas costs.
- dotnet00 11mo ago
  I think insurance considers Teslas to be luxury vehicles?
- iancmceachern 11mo ago
  and they dont sell one under $40k in the US, that buys you two toyota corollas
  - nicce 11mo ago
    Which will outlive Tesla cars at least by decade.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
- bravetraveler 11mo ago
  Extremely relative. I escaped part of the US where any car that started reliably was luxury. New, or brand selection, was absolutely out of the question. 62k Euros gets a lifetime of used vehicles. I'll say the quiet thing: buying a new car and taking the depreciation is a form of luxury. More about status than getting to the destination. Dan has a point. I could pay for half of a house right now, committing seems silly until things cool down. Two articles away from being relocated again, despite working remotely.
jonway 11mo ago
They also haven’t released a vehicle that is particularly relevant in like 6 years. Yes, the Cybertruck that nobody really wants, and a Model Y with an extended wheelbase. Yay.
- pfannkuchen 11mo ago
  Why do things have to change constantly? Like the Model Y was insanely different to any other car I’d ever driven not long ago, and Tesla was first to market on actually good electric cars. Why do they have to operate using the same strategy as legacy auto makers? Like a design refresh every 3 years to drive excitement feels manipulative to me, not like something that is absolutely necessary. Are you saying that competitor electric cars are outcompeting them by a wide margin now? I’m not really aware of which ones if so, at least in the American market. AFAIK the electric car program for all of the legacy auto makers is still a money pit for them, is it not?
  - ageitgey 11mo ago
    Cars (especially in the US) are an emotional and personal purchase. They are an extension and representation of your personality. It's fashion. The entire history of the US car business has shown that the path to success is to produce different variants for different customer bases and refresh those variants to drive continual sales. Some manufacturers take this to Nike-level extremes with rare variants, 1-of-1 models, etc (looking at you, Porsche). Other manufactures take it to the other extreme with base one platform being repurposed for 5+ different customer segments with wildly different body designs - for example the Toyota Tundra, Tacoma, Lexus LX, 4Runner, and Land Cruiser are all the same car with a different shell. So the conventional wisdom in the industry is that Tesla is committing suicide by producing generic, stale cars without model variants. Tesla seems to have bet that the conventional wisdom is wrong and producing cheap, repeatable cars with less variation is a better business strategy. Time will tell.
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    They don't need to constantly change, it's just that yes: they're being outcompeted, and pretty hard. The legacy automakers are fully in the game and everyone now remembers: oh wait, they know how to make cars. Tesla... ehhh Kia, Hyundai, even GM are really giving Tesla a run for their money in every segment.

akmarinov 11mo ago

Is Tesla a luxury brand? They don’t sell a car over 62000€ in Europe.

astahlx 11mo ago
Tesla is not a luxury brand, but they ask for premium prices, compared to the value (worst in ADAC statistics on repairs) “ In 1974, a new car cost an average of 5320 euros. The average income was 13,928 euros per year, so a buyer had to work for an average of 4.6 months for a new car. 20 years later, it was already 7.4 months per new car. Until 2019, this number remained stable, but then it skyrocketed. Today, a buyer has to spend all his income from 9.6 months of employment to buy a new car. For more expensive e-cars, it is even 11.4 months. The reason is stagnant incomes, but also high profit margins of the manufacturers.” https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/verbraucher/kosten-autos-deutsche-hersteller-100.html https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/verbraucher/kosten-auto... From my personal perspective, as an employed software engineer, all cars over 50k are luxury.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- bagavi 11mo ago
  The value derived and average usage of a car has increased too... Also the financing around cars have made it smoother to buy one. Also Electric can demand a premium because they save on gas costs.
dotnet00 11mo ago
I think insurance considers Teslas to be luxury vehicles?
iancmceachern 11mo ago
and they dont sell one under $40k in the US, that buys you two toyota corollas
- nicce 11mo ago
  Which will outlive Tesla cars at least by decade.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
bravetraveler 11mo ago
Extremely relative. I escaped part of the US where any car that started reliably was luxury. New, or brand selection, was absolutely out of the question. 62k Euros gets a lifetime of used vehicles. I'll say the quiet thing: buying a new car and taking the depreciation is a form of luxury. More about status than getting to the destination. Dan has a point. I could pay for half of a house right now, committing seems silly until things cool down. Two articles away from being relocated again, despite working remotely.

jonway 11mo ago

They also haven’t released a vehicle that is particularly relevant in like 6 years. Yes, the Cybertruck that nobody really wants, and a Model Y with an extended wheelbase. Yay.

pfannkuchen 11mo ago
Why do things have to change constantly? Like the Model Y was insanely different to any other car I’d ever driven not long ago, and Tesla was first to market on actually good electric cars. Why do they have to operate using the same strategy as legacy auto makers? Like a design refresh every 3 years to drive excitement feels manipulative to me, not like something that is absolutely necessary. Are you saying that competitor electric cars are outcompeting them by a wide margin now? I’m not really aware of which ones if so, at least in the American market. AFAIK the electric car program for all of the legacy auto makers is still a money pit for them, is it not?
- ageitgey 11mo ago
  Cars (especially in the US) are an emotional and personal purchase. They are an extension and representation of your personality. It's fashion. The entire history of the US car business has shown that the path to success is to produce different variants for different customer bases and refresh those variants to drive continual sales. Some manufacturers take this to Nike-level extremes with rare variants, 1-of-1 models, etc (looking at you, Porsche). Other manufactures take it to the other extreme with base one platform being repurposed for 5+ different customer segments with wildly different body designs - for example the Toyota Tundra, Tacoma, Lexus LX, 4Runner, and Land Cruiser are all the same car with a different shell. So the conventional wisdom in the industry is that Tesla is committing suicide by producing generic, stale cars without model variants. Tesla seems to have bet that the conventional wisdom is wrong and producing cheap, repeatable cars with less variation is a better business strategy. Time will tell.
- array_key_first 11mo ago
  They don't need to constantly change, it's just that yes: they're being outcompeted, and pretty hard. The legacy automakers are fully in the game and everyone now remembers: oh wait, they know how to make cars. Tesla... ehhh Kia, Hyundai, even GM are really giving Tesla a run for their money in every segment.