6 ms·

In some countries it's not considered a slur. In the UK, the government's list of ethnic groups contains 'Gypsy or Irish Traveller' - https://www.ethnicity-fact

by verbify 11mo ago

In some countries it's not considered a slur. In the UK, the government's list of ethnic groups contains 'Gypsy or Irish Traveller' - https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-guide/ethnic-groups/ https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-gui....

n4r9 11mo ago
That's true although "Roma" is a more sensitive (and accurate) description. The linked article is still a bit weird, as RLS does not appear to be Roma or even a vagabond/itinerant figure. He just travelled a lot.
- antonymoose 11mo ago
  I believe Roma is a very continental European (German?) term. I’ve only ever heard it in the context of “Sinti und Roma.” In any case it A) refers to a specific subset of the broader “Gypsy” sects and B) is virtually unknown in America. In the US there are “Gypsy” and “Irish Travellers,” with the latter being a specific subset like Roma, and even then I’ve only heard the term used regionally, e.g. in Augusta, SC where a population lives.
  - genuineresponse 11mo ago
    The communities I'm in in America avoid the use of the term precisely because it's an exonym. Around here people use Roma or Traveller. Granted my sample size is O(100), but that's not nothing either. Although I tend to roll in more progressive circles.
smelendez 11mo ago
In the US, where this publication is based, it’s pretty universally frowned upon to use an ethnic group name as a metaphor for a character trait. It’s also a bad editorial decision. Here we are debating the headline and not even talking about the article.
- Dilettante_ 11mo ago
  >Here we are debating the headline and not even talking about the article Your reaction to a thing comes from you, not from the thing.
  - shadowgovt 11mo ago
    Authors can illicit reactions by word choice; it's part of the job. "Know thy audience" for a reason.
  - 8bitsrule 11mo ago
    > debating the headline > not even talking about the article Both typical around these parts. I suspect the author or publisher may have chosen the name of the book for that attention-drawing controversiality. RLS was not the healthiest author and partly 'wandered' in search of better prospects than those of Old Blighty.
- inglor_cz 11mo ago
  It seems to me that "peak sensitivity" with regards to potentially offensive words and ideas was reached in 2020-1 and the US seems to be on the downward trajectory since then, with the slope of that trajectory vastly increasing in 2025. So this editorial decision might be just part of this overall trend.
gausswho 11mo ago
It's not only present in the title. Midway through: "Louis’s mother, was a more joyful figure, and proved to be resilient after her husband’s death, sailing with Louis’s gypsy family to the South Seas." I'm inclined to think the author is aware of modern preferences, and that Stevenson's family may have referenced themselves this way.
ants_everywhere 11mo ago
IMO it's up to the Romani to decide not the UK census site. But in fact it seems to be the term used by some Romani groups > The term Gypsy, which originates in the word "Egypt", mistakenly believed to be the original homeland of the Gypsies, has been controversial.[8] Some Romani activists reject the term, but it is embraced by others.[8] Although the term "Roma" was endorsed in place of "Gypsies" at the first World Roma Congress in London,[9] many Romani people in Britain prefer to call themselves Gypsies, or names that include the term such as Romani Gypsies or Romany Gypsies.[10][11][5][12][8][13] They also commonly refer to themselves as Romani or Romanies.[14] (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy,_Roma_and_Traveller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy,_Roma_and_Traveller) I believe (but can't find a clear source) that there are also Native American groups that prefer to be called Indian. This is a close analogy Egypt <-> Romani, India <-> Native Americans. But it is true that many people only recently stopped using "gypped" as a slur. My kid was reading A Wrinkle in Time and looking for vocabulary words the other day, and I had to tell her that "gypped" was probably not appropriate for her homework and that we don't use that word anymore. So that's one reason to be aware that "Gypsy" is controversial. In my experience, many people are not aware of this fact at all because it so rarely comes up.

by verbify 11mo ago

n4r9 11mo ago

That's true although "Roma" is a more sensitive (and accurate) description. The linked article is still a bit weird, as RLS does not appear to be Roma or even a vagabond/itinerant figure. He just travelled a lot.

antonymoose 11mo ago
I believe Roma is a very continental European (German?) term. I’ve only ever heard it in the context of “Sinti und Roma.” In any case it A) refers to a specific subset of the broader “Gypsy” sects and B) is virtually unknown in America. In the US there are “Gypsy” and “Irish Travellers,” with the latter being a specific subset like Roma, and even then I’ve only heard the term used regionally, e.g. in Augusta, SC where a population lives.
- genuineresponse 11mo ago
  The communities I'm in in America avoid the use of the term precisely because it's an exonym. Around here people use Roma or Traveller. Granted my sample size is O(100), but that's not nothing either. Although I tend to roll in more progressive circles.

smelendez 11mo ago

In the US, where this publication is based, it’s pretty universally frowned upon to use an ethnic group name as a metaphor for a character trait. It’s also a bad editorial decision. Here we are debating the headline and not even talking about the article.

Dilettante_ 11mo ago
>Here we are debating the headline and not even talking about the article Your reaction to a thing comes from you, not from the thing.
- shadowgovt 11mo ago
  Authors can illicit reactions by word choice; it's part of the job. "Know thy audience" for a reason.
- 8bitsrule 11mo ago
  > debating the headline > not even talking about the article Both typical around these parts. I suspect the author or publisher may have chosen the name of the book for that attention-drawing controversiality. RLS was not the healthiest author and partly 'wandered' in search of better prospects than those of Old Blighty.
inglor_cz 11mo ago
It seems to me that "peak sensitivity" with regards to potentially offensive words and ideas was reached in 2020-1 and the US seems to be on the downward trajectory since then, with the slope of that trajectory vastly increasing in 2025. So this editorial decision might be just part of this overall trend.

gausswho 11mo ago

It's not only present in the title. Midway through: "Louis’s mother, was a more joyful figure, and proved to be resilient after her husband’s death, sailing with Louis’s gypsy family to the South Seas." I'm inclined to think the author is aware of modern preferences, and that Stevenson's family may have referenced themselves this way.

ants_everywhere 11mo ago

IMO it's up to the Romani to decide not the UK census site. But in fact it seems to be the term used by some Romani groups > The term Gypsy, which originates in the word "Egypt", mistakenly believed to be the original homeland of the Gypsies, has been controversial.[8] Some Romani activists reject the term, but it is embraced by others.[8] Although the term "Roma" was endorsed in place of "Gypsies" at the first World Roma Congress in London,[9] many Romani people in Britain prefer to call themselves Gypsies, or names that include the term such as Romani Gypsies or Romany Gypsies.[10][11][5][12][8][13] They also commonly refer to themselves as Romani or Romanies.[14] (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy,_Roma_and_Traveller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy,_Roma_and_Traveller) I believe (but can't find a clear source) that there are also Native American groups that prefer to be called Indian. This is a close analogy Egypt <-> Romani, India <-> Native Americans. But it is true that many people only recently stopped using "gypped" as a slur. My kid was reading A Wrinkle in Time and looking for vocabulary words the other day, and I had to tell her that "gypped" was probably not appropriate for her homework and that we don't use that word anymore. So that's one reason to be aware that "Gypsy" is controversial. In my experience, many people are not aware of this fact at all because it so rarely comes up.