7 ms·

> Think of it like WWII, only only instead of planting victory gardens to beat the Nazis, we're building AI apps and finding ways to create the economic value n

by terandle 11mo ago

> Think of it like WWII, only only instead of planting victory gardens to beat the Nazis, we're building AI apps and finding ways to create the economic value needed to cover the reckless bets being made by the elites. LOL fuck this, the stock market deserves to burn to the ground.

SamoyedFurFluff 11mo ago
The only problem is that the stock market is tied to a bunch of retirement/pension and other accounts. Yes stock market should burn to the ground but also I think pensioners and retirees shouldn’t be put out, just the finance bros and private equity folks which money is just a plaything.
- philipwhiuk 11mo ago
  Pensioners and retirees willingly dumping money into index funds without oversight are the dumb money that enables all of this. So yes, they deserve a haircut.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 11mo ago
    Pensioners don’t have a choice where their stuff goes. A teacher or something simply doesn’t deserve that kind of hardship.
    - fredophile 11mo ago
      Pension funds should be diversified and have a mix of asset classes that includes more than the stock market. Ideally, most of these assets will move independently so if one is doing particularly badly the others can balance it out to reduce overall volatility. If your pension fund is too heavily weighted to the market, that's a management problem with your fund.
  - kjellsbells 11mo ago
    Deserve is a strong word. We're talking about regular folks who want to do nothing else but secure their future in the face of a market that regularly tries to screw it up. Can you explain why you suggest "deserve"?
  - parrellel 11mo ago
    Or perhaps we shouldn't have killed off the concept of pensions in the United States so we weren't all beholden to godforsaken 401Ks?
    - array_key_first 11mo ago
      To be fair, the pensions also exploded in a lot of cases. We really just need a more centralized and reliable method of holding money for retirement. Which we have, but we need to expand - SS. Of course, lots of people think SS will explode, too. But it hasn't! Yet!
  - travisgriggs 11mo ago
    This is pretty myopic, or something. Shows, at least, a real ignorance about the available possibilities (or lack thereof)—at scale—to the common worker for “saving for a later day”. But I’m all ears. Now that you’ve diagnosed how 401K investing fools get what they deserve, care to offer any alternative solutions as to the entire work force should have been saving towards retirement.
    - miningape 11mo ago
      (kinda unrelated but) I personally hate these forced savings schemes from the government. At least in my country the rates are low so it almost feels like I'm donating the entire difference in rates between the pension scheme and the S&P500 + taxes straight to the government. At least give those of us brave (or stupid) enough to do something different with the money the option to.
      - cudgy 11mo ago
        401k is voluntary
        travisgriggs 11mo ago
        I guess. My company (and I believe most) highly incentivize it by offering matching funds. The company says, "want to save $1000 of your paycheck? We'll throw in $500". The general wisdom is, you'd be an idiot to leave money like that going unreclaimed.
        miningape 11mo ago
        Where I am there's actually a %-age of your salary/wage that's "returned" to you when you retire. You don't get a choice. You can choose to contribute to an employer-match scheme (I do) or even fund your own pension account with monthly payments to a pension provider. But these are in addition to the above forced pension.
Fernicia 11mo ago
When did the HackerNews comment section turn into this? Low quality, aggressive, fervently anti-establishment.
- philipwhiuk 11mo ago
  Anti-establishment is sort of a requirement for doing a start-up. Aggressiveness is a requirement for doing a start-up in times of constrained capitalism Low quality is driven the by the availability of capital for dumb ideas. So... a while now?
  - devin 11mo ago
    These startups backed by venture funds are anti-establishment? Are you joking?
    - elzbardico 11mo ago
      This is a core tenet of Startupist religious dogma. People really believe it.
      - devin 11mo ago
        That is deeply cringe.
    - fisf 11mo ago
      People like to think that they are anti-establishment and disruptive at a startup. They conveniently ignore who is writing the cheques.
    - array_key_first 11mo ago
      Part of being deep in the establishment is that you have to proclaim you're anti-establiahment. It's like the perfect pop song - "I kissed a girl" by Katy Perry. Do I think she's kissed a girl? No, no I don't.
- dimitrios1 11mo ago
CuriouslyC 11mo ago
While there are a lot of problems with the current market dynamics, burning it to the ground would cause a ridiculous amount of suffering. We need to spin up a new alternative then wind down the market gently.

SamoyedFurFluff 11mo ago

The only problem is that the stock market is tied to a bunch of retirement/pension and other accounts. Yes stock market should burn to the ground but also I think pensioners and retirees shouldn’t be put out, just the finance bros and private equity folks which money is just a plaything.

philipwhiuk 11mo ago
Pensioners and retirees willingly dumping money into index funds without oversight are the dumb money that enables all of this. So yes, they deserve a haircut.
- SamoyedFurFluff 11mo ago
  Pensioners don’t have a choice where their stuff goes. A teacher or something simply doesn’t deserve that kind of hardship.
  - fredophile 11mo ago
    Pension funds should be diversified and have a mix of asset classes that includes more than the stock market. Ideally, most of these assets will move independently so if one is doing particularly badly the others can balance it out to reduce overall volatility. If your pension fund is too heavily weighted to the market, that's a management problem with your fund.
- kjellsbells 11mo ago
  Deserve is a strong word. We're talking about regular folks who want to do nothing else but secure their future in the face of a market that regularly tries to screw it up. Can you explain why you suggest "deserve"?
- parrellel 11mo ago
  Or perhaps we shouldn't have killed off the concept of pensions in the United States so we weren't all beholden to godforsaken 401Ks?
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    To be fair, the pensions also exploded in a lot of cases. We really just need a more centralized and reliable method of holding money for retirement. Which we have, but we need to expand - SS. Of course, lots of people think SS will explode, too. But it hasn't! Yet!
- travisgriggs 11mo ago
  This is pretty myopic, or something. Shows, at least, a real ignorance about the available possibilities (or lack thereof)—at scale—to the common worker for “saving for a later day”. But I’m all ears. Now that you’ve diagnosed how 401K investing fools get what they deserve, care to offer any alternative solutions as to the entire work force should have been saving towards retirement.
  - miningape 11mo ago
    (kinda unrelated but) I personally hate these forced savings schemes from the government. At least in my country the rates are low so it almost feels like I'm donating the entire difference in rates between the pension scheme and the S&P500 + taxes straight to the government. At least give those of us brave (or stupid) enough to do something different with the money the option to.
    - cudgy 11mo ago
      401k is voluntary
      - travisgriggs 11mo ago
        I guess. My company (and I believe most) highly incentivize it by offering matching funds. The company says, "want to save $1000 of your paycheck? We'll throw in $500". The general wisdom is, you'd be an idiot to leave money like that going unreclaimed.
        miningape 11mo ago
        Where I am there's actually a %-age of your salary/wage that's "returned" to you when you retire. You don't get a choice. You can choose to contribute to an employer-match scheme (I do) or even fund your own pension account with monthly payments to a pension provider. But these are in addition to the above forced pension.

Fernicia 11mo ago

When did the HackerNews comment section turn into this? Low quality, aggressive, fervently anti-establishment.

philipwhiuk 11mo ago
Anti-establishment is sort of a requirement for doing a start-up. Aggressiveness is a requirement for doing a start-up in times of constrained capitalism Low quality is driven the by the availability of capital for dumb ideas. So... a while now?
- devin 11mo ago
  These startups backed by venture funds are anti-establishment? Are you joking?
  - elzbardico 11mo ago
    This is a core tenet of Startupist religious dogma. People really believe it.
    - devin 11mo ago
      That is deeply cringe.
  - fisf 11mo ago
    People like to think that they are anti-establishment and disruptive at a startup. They conveniently ignore who is writing the cheques.
  - array_key_first 11mo ago
    Part of being deep in the establishment is that you have to proclaim you're anti-establiahment. It's like the perfect pop song - "I kissed a girl" by Katy Perry. Do I think she's kissed a girl? No, no I don't.
dimitrios1 11mo ago

CuriouslyC 11mo ago

While there are a lot of problems with the current market dynamics, burning it to the ground would cause a ridiculous amount of suffering. We need to spin up a new alternative then wind down the market gently.