13 ms·

Specifically, it feels like the lack of discernment goes off the rails and falls into the chasm of derangement where people assume that their opponents do not h

Specifically, it feels like the lack of discernment goes off the rails and falls into the chasm of derangement where people assume that their opponents do not have that common goal. Anti-natalists and population control advocates excluded, most of us do share that goal. The differences are in the proposed approaches. There are legitimate discussions which can be had about those approaches to achieving that common goal. The discussion is no longer in good faith where partisans deny that common goal or assume evil intent.

weregiraffe 1y ago
What about the millions of, for example, Muslims, who have a very particular idea of what "prosperity" means? Especially for your female children.
- woooooo 1y ago
  Do fundamentalist Muslims have a realistic chance of imposing those views on your nation? Because, if not, you Fell For It Again. (Aside, every western Muslim I've personally met has been chill)
  - zpeti 1y ago
    Realistic is a very broad term, but do you think they don’t have an effect? And where you are from matters a lot, you will probably answer very differently if you are from California or if you are from Birmingham UK.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - febusravenga 1y ago
    In western Germany, France, UK? Traditionally catholic countries, core of European enlightenment culture. Yes there is small, but realistic chance. That's why right shovinism is rising in eu
- tankenmate 1y ago
  And the fundamentalist Christians who advocate that women should "Keep Sweet"? Ever wondered where fundie baby voice comes from? I suspect if you look at it a bit longer you'll see that the issue isn't "Muslim", the issue is "fundamentalism". "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
  - weregiraffe 1y ago
    No, the issue is wider. Everyone has something that can be considered a "fundamentalist value" by someone else who doesn't share it. It just doesn't feel that way when the value is yours.
    - tankenmate 1y ago
      I suspect you misunderstand the meaning of the word fundamentalism; it's not just about absolutism, but also the authoritarian aspect, i.e. this issue is "back and white" and "i'm going to force you to to adhere to this black and white framework" (for some mechanism of "force"). My point is that it is the combination of "lack and white" and "forced compliance" that is the issue. So your point "considered a "fundamentalist value" by someone else who doesn't share it" either a) directly contradicts the "No, the issue is wider", or b) you didn't understand what I was saying.
      - weregiraffe 1y ago
        Every society will force someone to adher to something against their will.
        tankenmate 11mo ago
        "Only a Sith deals in absolutes"; your statement is both a) lacking any nuance (any cost vs any benefit), and b) so lacking in nuance (a tautology even) to border on irrelevance and nihilism (a throw away statement that has the intellectual depth of "everything happens for a reason", a true but largely useless comment that, at least on the surface, is used to shut down any debate).
anon291 1y ago
There is something particular to the twitter style of website that is toxic. I tried twitter for a month or two and my mental health fell apart. Back to reddit and hn and my life feels better. They are also less addicting. The segregation into interest specific communities helps you context switch.
spencerflem 1y ago
There is no way to look at what the republicans have been doing and conclude that they are trying to improve everyone’s well being.
- anon291 11mo ago
  Oh please. Democrats opened the field to Republicans with their anti police rhetoric (and Republicans are now in the process of self destruction by being anti everyone but their preferred democratic). Polls show most people are pro police. I live in a liberal neighborhood of Portland and if you actually talked to Democrat voters, you'd know they actually want police. Again, get offline. These extreme positions that have taken over both parties are the result of listening to twitter. Seriously that website is toxic. It causes fear and anxiety and governance by fear is terrible. Online democrats / left leaners seem to fear law enforcement. Meanwhile online Republicans / right leaners seem to fear everyone not exactly like them. What ends up happening is that the political class ends up fielding candidates that are extreme since the online political class has disproportionate influence over that, and then normal people have to choose the best of two awful candidates. No one can seriously say last election was a competition between America's best.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- palmfacehn 1y ago
  That is a good example of a bad faith presupposition. It assumes intent. You may passionately believe this and it may even be a popular view here at HN. However, it isn't a starting point for a dialogue.
  - cosmicgadget 11mo ago
    My dude, the intent is frequently stated plainly on Temu Twitter by the party leader. Do you need hyperlinks? The GOP is loudly unambiguously trying to hurt its adversaries.

weregiraffe 1y ago

What about the millions of, for example, Muslims, who have a very particular idea of what "prosperity" means? Especially for your female children.

woooooo 1y ago
Do fundamentalist Muslims have a realistic chance of imposing those views on your nation? Because, if not, you Fell For It Again. (Aside, every western Muslim I've personally met has been chill)
- zpeti 1y ago
  Realistic is a very broad term, but do you think they don’t have an effect? And where you are from matters a lot, you will probably answer very differently if you are from California or if you are from Birmingham UK.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- febusravenga 1y ago
  In western Germany, France, UK? Traditionally catholic countries, core of European enlightenment culture. Yes there is small, but realistic chance. That's why right shovinism is rising in eu
tankenmate 1y ago
And the fundamentalist Christians who advocate that women should "Keep Sweet"? Ever wondered where fundie baby voice comes from? I suspect if you look at it a bit longer you'll see that the issue isn't "Muslim", the issue is "fundamentalism". "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
- weregiraffe 1y ago
  No, the issue is wider. Everyone has something that can be considered a "fundamentalist value" by someone else who doesn't share it. It just doesn't feel that way when the value is yours.
  - tankenmate 1y ago
    I suspect you misunderstand the meaning of the word fundamentalism; it's not just about absolutism, but also the authoritarian aspect, i.e. this issue is "back and white" and "i'm going to force you to to adhere to this black and white framework" (for some mechanism of "force"). My point is that it is the combination of "lack and white" and "forced compliance" that is the issue. So your point "considered a "fundamentalist value" by someone else who doesn't share it" either a) directly contradicts the "No, the issue is wider", or b) you didn't understand what I was saying.
    - weregiraffe 1y ago
      Every society will force someone to adher to something against their will.
      - tankenmate 11mo ago
        "Only a Sith deals in absolutes"; your statement is both a) lacking any nuance (any cost vs any benefit), and b) so lacking in nuance (a tautology even) to border on irrelevance and nihilism (a throw away statement that has the intellectual depth of "everything happens for a reason", a true but largely useless comment that, at least on the surface, is used to shut down any debate).

anon291 1y ago

There is something particular to the twitter style of website that is toxic. I tried twitter for a month or two and my mental health fell apart. Back to reddit and hn and my life feels better. They are also less addicting. The segregation into interest specific communities helps you context switch.

spencerflem 1y ago

There is no way to look at what the republicans have been doing and conclude that they are trying to improve everyone’s well being.

anon291 11mo ago
Oh please. Democrats opened the field to Republicans with their anti police rhetoric (and Republicans are now in the process of self destruction by being anti everyone but their preferred democratic). Polls show most people are pro police. I live in a liberal neighborhood of Portland and if you actually talked to Democrat voters, you'd know they actually want police. Again, get offline. These extreme positions that have taken over both parties are the result of listening to twitter. Seriously that website is toxic. It causes fear and anxiety and governance by fear is terrible. Online democrats / left leaners seem to fear law enforcement. Meanwhile online Republicans / right leaners seem to fear everyone not exactly like them. What ends up happening is that the political class ends up fielding candidates that are extreme since the online political class has disproportionate influence over that, and then normal people have to choose the best of two awful candidates. No one can seriously say last election was a competition between America's best.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
palmfacehn 1y ago
That is a good example of a bad faith presupposition. It assumes intent. You may passionately believe this and it may even be a popular view here at HN. However, it isn't a starting point for a dialogue.
- cosmicgadget 11mo ago
  My dude, the intent is frequently stated plainly on Temu Twitter by the party leader. Do you need hyperlinks? The GOP is loudly unambiguously trying to hurt its adversaries.