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I think people underestimate the degree to which fun matters when it comes to productivity. If something isn’t fun then I’ll likely put it off. A 15 minute ta

by Bjorkbat 11mo ago

I think people underestimate the degree to which fun matters when it comes to productivity. If something isn’t fun then I’ll likely put it off. A 15 minute task can become hours, maybe days long, because I’m going to procrastinate on doing it. If managing a bunch of AI agents is a very un-fun way to spend time, then I don’t think it’s the future. If the new way of doing this is more work and more tedium, then why the hell have we collectively decided this is the new way to work when historically the approach has been to automate and abstract tedium so we can focus on what matters? The people selling you the future of work don’t necessarily know better than you.

nyantaro1 11mo ago
I think some people have more fun using LLM agents and generative AI tools. Not my case, but you can definitely read a bunch of comments from people using the tools and having fun/experience a state of flow like they have never had before
- shortrounddev2 11mo ago
  I think the majority of people I've worked with who have the title of "Software Engineer" do not like coding. They got into it for the money/career, and dream of eventually moving out of coding into management. I can count the number of coders who I've met who like coding on one hand
- Bjorkbat 11mo ago
  I definitely agree with you there. I contracted with a company that had some older engineers who were in largely managerial roles who really liked using AI for personal projects, and honestly, I kind of get it. Their work flow was basically prompt, get results, prompt again with modifications, rinse and repeat, it's low effort and has a nice REPL-like loop. Paraphrasing a bit, but it basically re-kindled the joy of programming for them. Haven't gotten the chance to ask, but I imagine managing a team of AI agents would feel a little too much like their day job, and consequently, suck the fun out of it. That said, looking back, I think the reason why generative AI is so fun for so many coders is because programming has become unnecessarily complex. I have to admit, programming nowadays for me feels like a bit of a slog at times because of the sheer effort it can sometimes take to implement the simplest things. Doesn't have to be that way, but I think LLM copy-paste machines are probably the wrong direction.
- dgunay 11mo ago
  It's a different kind of fun for me. I've been enjoying seeing my agents produce code while I am otherwise too busy to program, or seeing refined prompts & context engineering get better results. The boring kinds of programming tasks that I would normally put off are now lower friction, and now there's an element of workflow tinkering with all these different AI tools that lets me have some fun with it. I also recently programmed for a few hours on a plane, with no LLM assistance whatsoever, and it was a refreshing way to reconnect with the joy of just internalizing a problem and fitting the pieces together in realtime. I am a bit sad that this kind of fun may no longer be lucrative in the near future, but I am thankful I got to experience it.
- alickz 11mo ago
  >I think some people have more fun using LLM agents and generative AI tools I think I'm one of them The rate at which I can explore new paths, or revisit old ones with a new perspective, has _exploded_ and I love it But then I'm the kind of person who could spend hours on Wikipedia going from one page to the next, so that might have something to do with it There's just so much to learn, I'm in my element (Though I use agents mostly in Ask mode, or I manually review every line of code in Agent mode and never commit anything I don't understand)
vineyardmike 11mo ago
I’ll be that voice I guess - I have fun “vibe coding”. I’m a professional software engineer in Silicon Valley, and I’m fortunate to have been able to work on household-name consumer products across my career. I definitely know how to do “real” professional work “at scale” or whatever. Point is, I can do real work and understand things on my own, and I can generally review code and guide architecture and all that jazz. I became a software engineer because I love creating things that I and others could use, and I don’t care about “solving the puzzle” type satisfaction from writing code. In engineering school, software had the fastest turnaround time from idea in my head to something I could use, and that’s why I became a software engineer. LLM assisted coding accelerates this trend. I can guide an LLM to help me create things quickly and easily. Things I can mostly create myself, of course, but I find it faster for a whole category of easy tasks like generating UIs. It really lowers the “activation energy” to experiment. I think of it like 3D printing, where I can prototype ideas in an afternoon instead of long weekend or a few weeks.
- maplethorpe 11mo ago
  As a thought experiment, do you think it would be just as fun if you were given access to an infinite database of apps, and you were able to search through the database for an existing app that suit your needs, and then it gave it to you? Or would it no longer be fun, because it no longer feels like creating?
  - vineyardmike 11mo ago
    I'll repeat something I said to a sibling comment. I guess my original wasn't particularly clear. > I think there is joy in the act of turning your ideas into something real - creation - not just having something real. Shopping is not building.
    - maplethorpe 11mo ago
      No, you were clear. I suppose I was interested to see where you drew the distinction between creating and shopping. For example, lets say LLMs improve to the point where they can now reliably one-shot entire apps with no more input than the original prompt. Would you no longer consider that creating? What's the difference between that and typing your prompt into an infinite app store?

nyantaro1 11mo ago

I think some people have more fun using LLM agents and generative AI tools. Not my case, but you can definitely read a bunch of comments from people using the tools and having fun/experience a state of flow like they have never had before

shortrounddev2 11mo ago
I think the majority of people I've worked with who have the title of "Software Engineer" do not like coding. They got into it for the money/career, and dream of eventually moving out of coding into management. I can count the number of coders who I've met who like coding on one hand
Bjorkbat 11mo ago
I definitely agree with you there. I contracted with a company that had some older engineers who were in largely managerial roles who really liked using AI for personal projects, and honestly, I kind of get it. Their work flow was basically prompt, get results, prompt again with modifications, rinse and repeat, it's low effort and has a nice REPL-like loop. Paraphrasing a bit, but it basically re-kindled the joy of programming for them. Haven't gotten the chance to ask, but I imagine managing a team of AI agents would feel a little too much like their day job, and consequently, suck the fun out of it. That said, looking back, I think the reason why generative AI is so fun for so many coders is because programming has become unnecessarily complex. I have to admit, programming nowadays for me feels like a bit of a slog at times because of the sheer effort it can sometimes take to implement the simplest things. Doesn't have to be that way, but I think LLM copy-paste machines are probably the wrong direction.
dgunay 11mo ago
It's a different kind of fun for me. I've been enjoying seeing my agents produce code while I am otherwise too busy to program, or seeing refined prompts & context engineering get better results. The boring kinds of programming tasks that I would normally put off are now lower friction, and now there's an element of workflow tinkering with all these different AI tools that lets me have some fun with it. I also recently programmed for a few hours on a plane, with no LLM assistance whatsoever, and it was a refreshing way to reconnect with the joy of just internalizing a problem and fitting the pieces together in realtime. I am a bit sad that this kind of fun may no longer be lucrative in the near future, but I am thankful I got to experience it.
alickz 11mo ago
>I think some people have more fun using LLM agents and generative AI tools I think I'm one of them The rate at which I can explore new paths, or revisit old ones with a new perspective, has _exploded_ and I love it But then I'm the kind of person who could spend hours on Wikipedia going from one page to the next, so that might have something to do with it There's just so much to learn, I'm in my element (Though I use agents mostly in Ask mode, or I manually review every line of code in Agent mode and never commit anything I don't understand)

vineyardmike 11mo ago

I’ll be that voice I guess - I have fun “vibe coding”. I’m a professional software engineer in Silicon Valley, and I’m fortunate to have been able to work on household-name consumer products across my career. I definitely know how to do “real” professional work “at scale” or whatever. Point is, I can do real work and understand things on my own, and I can generally review code and guide architecture and all that jazz. I became a software engineer because I love creating things that I and others could use, and I don’t care about “solving the puzzle” type satisfaction from writing code. In engineering school, software had the fastest turnaround time from idea in my head to something I could use, and that’s why I became a software engineer. LLM assisted coding accelerates this trend. I can guide an LLM to help me create things quickly and easily. Things I can mostly create myself, of course, but I find it faster for a whole category of easy tasks like generating UIs. It really lowers the “activation energy” to experiment. I think of it like 3D printing, where I can prototype ideas in an afternoon instead of long weekend or a few weeks.

maplethorpe 11mo ago
As a thought experiment, do you think it would be just as fun if you were given access to an infinite database of apps, and you were able to search through the database for an existing app that suit your needs, and then it gave it to you? Or would it no longer be fun, because it no longer feels like creating?
- vineyardmike 11mo ago
  I'll repeat something I said to a sibling comment. I guess my original wasn't particularly clear. > I think there is joy in the act of turning your ideas into something real - creation - not just having something real. Shopping is not building.
  - maplethorpe 11mo ago
    No, you were clear. I suppose I was interested to see where you drew the distinction between creating and shopping. For example, lets say LLMs improve to the point where they can now reliably one-shot entire apps with no more input than the original prompt. Would you no longer consider that creating? What's the difference between that and typing your prompt into an infinite app store?