7 ms·

> I'd say so, yes. Proof beyond all reasonable doubt is a lovely standard for a criminal justice system. Note that it is not used in civil suits in America - o

by adgar 14y ago

> I'd say so, yes. Proof beyond all reasonable doubt is a lovely standard for a criminal justice system. Note that it is not used in civil suits in America - only criminal cases. We're not talking about taking away people's freedom here. We're talking about an investment website.

TillE 14y ago
Some level of proof is still necessary, though. Not just an accusation. In general with Kickstarter failures current and future, I think we'll find the evidence weighs heavily in favor of incompetence rather than malice. There's no shortage in the world of business ventures that are honest to goodness failures.
- adgar 14y ago
  > Some level of proof is still necessary, though. Not just an accusation. Is anyone arguing that mere accusations should result in kickstarter takedowns? You make a good point... just a sort of obvious one. This is clearly a hard problem, and neither extreme of "proof beyond reasonable doubt" or "accusation = takedown" works. Maybe that's why this space is so unexplored! That doesn't absolve Kickstarter from having to discover the palatable middle ground. Hard work is hard, and I think today's announcements are part of that hard work. So I say: keep it up, Kickstarter!
  - anthonyb 14y ago
    > Is anyone arguing that mere accusations should result in kickstarter takedowns? Yes, it should - if it's backed by a legal letter, Kickstarter might be liable too, if the suit is sucessful.
    - adgar 14y ago
      You seem to have misunderstood "mere accusations." Takedowns due to "mere accusations" to me means that I can fire off an e-mail if I see a kickstarter project that looks sketchy and have it taken down post-haste. To me, that is highly suboptimal.
      - anthonyb 14y ago
        Well if it's based on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4549792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4549792 then Kickstarter should take it down. It's a civil matter, so there's no "beyond reasonable doubt" required, and if Kickstarter are helping fund infringement, then they're on the hook too.
        alanctgardner2 14y ago
        Is there actually a legal basis for this? As in, if Stripe was, in good faith, processing payments for a company which is selling (allegedly) infringing products, they're obligated to stop processing payments immediately? It seems like there'd be a clause in the TOS to indemnify them.
        makomk 14y ago
        They didn't just take it down - they left no way for anyone to find out what had happened to the project by looking at the Kickstarter site. There's just a page saying the project doesn't exist anymore for some unspecified reason.

by adgar 14y ago

TillE 14y ago

Some level of proof is still necessary, though. Not just an accusation. In general with Kickstarter failures current and future, I think we'll find the evidence weighs heavily in favor of incompetence rather than malice. There's no shortage in the world of business ventures that are honest to goodness failures.

adgar 14y ago
> Some level of proof is still necessary, though. Not just an accusation. Is anyone arguing that mere accusations should result in kickstarter takedowns? You make a good point... just a sort of obvious one. This is clearly a hard problem, and neither extreme of "proof beyond reasonable doubt" or "accusation = takedown" works. Maybe that's why this space is so unexplored! That doesn't absolve Kickstarter from having to discover the palatable middle ground. Hard work is hard, and I think today's announcements are part of that hard work. So I say: keep it up, Kickstarter!
- anthonyb 14y ago
  > Is anyone arguing that mere accusations should result in kickstarter takedowns? Yes, it should - if it's backed by a legal letter, Kickstarter might be liable too, if the suit is sucessful.
  - adgar 14y ago
    You seem to have misunderstood "mere accusations." Takedowns due to "mere accusations" to me means that I can fire off an e-mail if I see a kickstarter project that looks sketchy and have it taken down post-haste. To me, that is highly suboptimal.
    - anthonyb 14y ago
      Well if it's based on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4549792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4549792 then Kickstarter should take it down. It's a civil matter, so there's no "beyond reasonable doubt" required, and if Kickstarter are helping fund infringement, then they're on the hook too.
      - alanctgardner2 14y ago
        Is there actually a legal basis for this? As in, if Stripe was, in good faith, processing payments for a company which is selling (allegedly) infringing products, they're obligated to stop processing payments immediately? It seems like there'd be a clause in the TOS to indemnify them.
      - makomk 14y ago
        They didn't just take it down - they left no way for anyone to find out what had happened to the project by looking at the Kickstarter site. There's just a page saying the project doesn't exist anymore for some unspecified reason.