4 ms·

1. When discussing "the most repressive Western governments", we exclude Communist and Islamist regimes by definition. The West refers to North America and West

1. When discussing "the most repressive Western governments", we exclude Communist and Islamist regimes by definition. The West refers to North America and Western Europe, where no Communist or Islamist government has held power. You can't reasonably claim the Western right is less authoritarian by pointing to non-Western examples. 2. The claim that "it's always the left that is motivated by ideology" ignores that right-wing movements are frequently driven by ideological commitments: religious conservatism, ethnonationalism, free-market fundamentalism, and so on. Authoritarian right-wing regimes often justify their actions through explicit ideological frameworks. 3. What mechanism in right-wing ideology "specifically designed to be against" authoritarianism are you referring to? Current consolidation of executive power in the US, rollbacks of institutional checks, and expanding surveillance capabilities suggest otherwise. If right-wing ideology inherently resists authoritarianism, how do you explain broad right-wing support for these trends? 4. Body counts correlate with state capacity and willingness to use violence, not economic system. Authoritarian regimes across the political spectrum have committed mass atrocities. Capitalist regimes have overseen famines (Bengal, Ireland) and genocides just as Communist ones have. The common factor is authoritarianism, not left vs. right.

spoiler 11mo ago
tldr is "kettle calling the pot black" Both extremes don't listen and arguments always fall on deaf ears, especially when perceived as ideologically different. Merits of the argument are irrelevant. Most don't evolve past"My dad is stronger than your dad", it just morphs into "my God is better than your god", or in more recent years "my politics/policy smarter than your policy". The people at the top want the same thing: to remain in rule. They agree the best way is oppression, they just don't agree who the oppressors should be. People in the middle usually all want the same thing: better lives, but can't agree which oppressors are the lesser evils
- thrance 11mo ago
  Yes we know, being pro universal healthcare is equally as radical as building literal concentration camps and sending legal immigrants to them. The left has never oppressed the right in this country. Being banned from twitter for saying racial slurs is not oppression.
  - spoiler 11mo ago
    I meant more generally, that the ruling/politico class is the same everywhere. They'll weaponise ideology they think will get them more votes. They're basically just wealthy and powerful reprobates playing us all for emotional fools. As for the concentration camp thing you brought up, I know it's hollow words on the Internet, but I'm sorry that it's happening. I live in the UK and tend to avoid news halfway across the world that I can't do anything about. It tends to make my (already precarious) mental healthy worse. As for the Twitter thing... I think Twitter (or any privately owned social media platform) is free to ban people. I think going to jail for hollow comments made on the Internet is not okay though. But also, these things are kind of orthogonal anyway. And for context, I'm what most people on the right would call a libtard: gay, neuro divergent, and the cherry on top is that I'm also a filthy immigrant. So it goes without saying that I strongly disagree with a lot of the stuff said by the"hard right", but silencing/cancelling people won't help improve the situation. It just breeds more contempt and leads into authoritarianism. And it makes the people in the middle question why is the other side so afraid of oppositing ideas. Authoritarian systems are bad whether right or left leaning. I come from a country ravaged by left leaning authoritarianism that's still recovering from that aftermaths (economically, politically, etc) even if I was born after it. The zeitgeist changes, so just because it's in my "libtard" interest right now, it doesn't mean it will always be. The left becomes right and vice versa. It's happened before, and it will happen again.
  - 1234letshaveatw 11mo ago
    ahh yes, that convenient "in the west" qualifier to exclude every communist country that, surprise! ran literal concentration camps.
    - thrance 11mo ago
      I did not put these words in my comment, what are you even talking about?
      - 1234letshaveatw 11mo ago
        [flagged]

spoiler 11mo ago

tldr is "kettle calling the pot black" Both extremes don't listen and arguments always fall on deaf ears, especially when perceived as ideologically different. Merits of the argument are irrelevant. Most don't evolve past"My dad is stronger than your dad", it just morphs into "my God is better than your god", or in more recent years "my politics/policy smarter than your policy". The people at the top want the same thing: to remain in rule. They agree the best way is oppression, they just don't agree who the oppressors should be. People in the middle usually all want the same thing: better lives, but can't agree which oppressors are the lesser evils

thrance 11mo ago
Yes we know, being pro universal healthcare is equally as radical as building literal concentration camps and sending legal immigrants to them. The left has never oppressed the right in this country. Being banned from twitter for saying racial slurs is not oppression.
- spoiler 11mo ago
  I meant more generally, that the ruling/politico class is the same everywhere. They'll weaponise ideology they think will get them more votes. They're basically just wealthy and powerful reprobates playing us all for emotional fools. As for the concentration camp thing you brought up, I know it's hollow words on the Internet, but I'm sorry that it's happening. I live in the UK and tend to avoid news halfway across the world that I can't do anything about. It tends to make my (already precarious) mental healthy worse. As for the Twitter thing... I think Twitter (or any privately owned social media platform) is free to ban people. I think going to jail for hollow comments made on the Internet is not okay though. But also, these things are kind of orthogonal anyway. And for context, I'm what most people on the right would call a libtard: gay, neuro divergent, and the cherry on top is that I'm also a filthy immigrant. So it goes without saying that I strongly disagree with a lot of the stuff said by the"hard right", but silencing/cancelling people won't help improve the situation. It just breeds more contempt and leads into authoritarianism. And it makes the people in the middle question why is the other side so afraid of oppositing ideas. Authoritarian systems are bad whether right or left leaning. I come from a country ravaged by left leaning authoritarianism that's still recovering from that aftermaths (economically, politically, etc) even if I was born after it. The zeitgeist changes, so just because it's in my "libtard" interest right now, it doesn't mean it will always be. The left becomes right and vice versa. It's happened before, and it will happen again.
- 1234letshaveatw 11mo ago
  ahh yes, that convenient "in the west" qualifier to exclude every communist country that, surprise! ran literal concentration camps.
  - thrance 11mo ago
    I did not put these words in my comment, what are you even talking about?
    - 1234letshaveatw 11mo ago
      [flagged]