7 ms·

Chinese civil engineers, and engineering orgs, are good because they get a lot of practice. In the West, and especially in the US, individuals and orgs don't g

Chinese civil engineers, and engineering orgs, are good because they get a lot of practice. In the West, and especially in the US, individuals and orgs don't get practice, so when they finally do get a new contract they have to stumble around for 5-10 years figuring out all the institutional knowledge that was lost. By the time they figure it out, the project is over budget, so it gets canceled, and then it's 20 years until the next half-hearted attempt. Lather rinse repeat. At root, a lot of this stems from a "managerial" mindset in which people and skills can simply be "reallocated" on a dime. They can't. You can't uproot trees all the time. You plant one and then it grows over multiple human lifetimes.

RajT88 1y ago
To say nothing of the NIMBYism. To acquire the land for use, you have to fight some armies of lawyers retained by a population with a lot of disposable income. (Yes, the US for all her problems has the biggest pool of disposable income in the world)
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  There's no NIMBYism in China, so that's a huge barrier that they don't have to worry about.
abeppu 1y ago
I know it would be attacked politically, but I wish in the US we would be more open to hiring foreign firms for these kinds of projects. Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? And we should structure contracts with them in a way that keeps the plans from being changed for political reasons. "Sorry state senator, we can't alter the route to pass through that town without re-opening negotiations which might cost billions."
- leakycap 1y ago
  > Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? No. Please see SNCF (French rail company)'s involvement in California's high speed rail project. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-... October 9, 2022 "How California's Bullet Train Went Off the Rails" The (foreign) company's recommendations [...] were cast aside, said Dan McNamara, a career project manager for SNCF
  - mitthrowaway2 1y ago
    So I guess we have to not only hire the foreign companies, but also listen to them.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      I think the lesson here might be to solve your problems on a more local scale, as the fit of the solution is as important as checking the boxes. What works in Japan works in Japan because it was a solution built for the problems, politics, and people of Japan. Sometimes there are lessons we can take from projects in other countries, other times it turns out like Cali HSR where the proposed 'foreign' solution might be logical but not politically tenable.
- LargeWu 1y ago
  The problem isn't physically building the rail, the problem is the legal framework in which governments operate in. Multiple rounds of environmental impact statements, eminent domain lawsuits, preferred contractor RFP's, zoning, permitting, endless red tape...

RajT88 1y ago

To say nothing of the NIMBYism. To acquire the land for use, you have to fight some armies of lawyers retained by a population with a lot of disposable income. (Yes, the US for all her problems has the biggest pool of disposable income in the world)

stronglikedan 1y ago
There's no NIMBYism in China, so that's a huge barrier that they don't have to worry about.

abeppu 1y ago

I know it would be attacked politically, but I wish in the US we would be more open to hiring foreign firms for these kinds of projects. Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? And we should structure contracts with them in a way that keeps the plans from being changed for political reasons. "Sorry state senator, we can't alter the route to pass through that town without re-opening negotiations which might cost billions."

leakycap 1y ago
> Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? No. Please see SNCF (French rail company)'s involvement in California's high speed rail project. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-rail-politics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-... October 9, 2022 "How California's Bullet Train Went Off the Rails" The (foreign) company's recommendations [...] were cast aside, said Dan McNamara, a career project manager for SNCF
- mitthrowaway2 1y ago
  So I guess we have to not only hire the foreign companies, but also listen to them.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    I think the lesson here might be to solve your problems on a more local scale, as the fit of the solution is as important as checking the boxes. What works in Japan works in Japan because it was a solution built for the problems, politics, and people of Japan. Sometimes there are lessons we can take from projects in other countries, other times it turns out like Cali HSR where the proposed 'foreign' solution might be logical but not politically tenable.
LargeWu 1y ago
The problem isn't physically building the rail, the problem is the legal framework in which governments operate in. Multiple rounds of environmental impact statements, eminent domain lawsuits, preferred contractor RFP's, zoning, permitting, endless red tape...